Dollhouse Re-watch: "Spy in in the house of love" & "Haunted"

[Taake]

rewatch discussion
episodes 9 and 10
"Spy in the house of love" (1) & "Haunted" (2)​

Discussion 1:
Eeep, totally forgot to watch my Dollhouse yesterday, things have been hectic, but I love this episode so I'll get around to it this weekend 🙂

Discussion 2: Not looking forwards to this episode so much. Wealthy horse people drama...

But the rest of you, go ahead and discuss 😀 I'll catch up!

 

[Blaze]

@Taake, you forgot to do your homework!!! 😛

Discussion 1

Stellar episode. Everything is much better now that there's no "story of the week". Obviously the biggest thing this episode was the betrayal of Mr. Dominic. I still have a hard time understanding what his intentions were. I mean he tried to kill Echo (twice), because she's likely to bring down the Dollhouse all on her own. And now, he also tries to bring down the Dollhouse but in order to keep the science secret? I think I'm missing something, the whole thing doesn't sound very logical. Did he really keep Paul away? Why keep in contact with him, why imprint Mellie with a message for him and ruin their best spy.

On a side note, going to the attic sounds really awful, and that final scene with him in the chair was pretty explicit. I think I'd be scared of working there knowing what they can do to you.

Adele and Victor, what a surprise. It's funny because if we look at the big picture, Adele is pretty much a despicable human, but in the end she just a normal human being. I really, really like her character. My heart broke a bit when she broke down. It's also somewhat interesting when you think that imprints are real, yes they are amalgams of people, but when they are imprinted they really become that person. I'm interested to know how they can make imprints fall in love with a specific person. How to they insert that in the program. And what is require to do that. Since no one knew that Victor was used for Adele, how was Topher able to make Victor fall in love with her?

This show raises some interesting questions.

Discussion 2

This one didn't move the plot too much, back to the more generic plot line. Although having a dead person imprinted was pretty dam cool.

"This is a one time situation" "“I wonder if this means that Rebecca wasn't really the imprint of the Millionaire's dead wife. Unless it was her personality but obviously without the memory of dying. Maybe Adele meant that they don't usually imprint people from their exact memories until the time of death.

As a rider, I can't help but critique the show a bit. Bad riding position, and no one would buy a 4M dollar horse without seeing it race, for which drug testing would be done. Was the kid really thinking that using the drug would work? Race horses are not use to go on trail rides, and the horse had semi bad conformation.. Horse rant over. Joss, if you're going to do a horse episode, do it right!

The Topher thing was really sad I thought. Was not expecting the ending when Adele explains that he does it once a year on his birthday.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

A Spy in the House of Love:
This is probably my favorite episode if not in the series then in the first season at least. The intro with the crazy electric chair and the gun shot was a great way to draw the audience in with some mystery. The structure of the episode where they show us each imprint unfold is great.

Echo as a dominatrix. The only scene I ever saw when the show was airing was that scene, and I was like wtf is this show about and why is Eliza dressed like that?

Paul Ballard being paranoid was crazy but it's about time he found out Mellie was a doll. Him calling out that he doesn't even know why he's doing this anymore, does not make it ok that we all think he has weak motives.

I really like Sierra's mission, it's like something out of a spy movie. The only problem I have is with her taking over the asian lady's identity. How did she know to dress like her, and what did it really matter since nobody at work had seen what she was wearing anyways? Also it may be racist to say that all asains look alike even though I think it's a stereotype, but Sierra did not look like that girl and people should have noticed.

I love Victor as Roger. Such a gentlemen. The reveal of Adele as Ms. Lonely Hearts was brilliant. My question is how does Victor know to go to Adele's if he's not programmed to, because Topher doesn't know it's Adele. The only thing I can think of is Adele knows that old lady and she intercepted his first engagement there and for whatever reason he goes along with it. The conversation they have in the bed, was great. You can tell that Adele desperately wants to believe in what shes saying but she knows it will never happen. That's sad and I feel bad for her.

I love the interrogation scene! Ivy's response is great. Echo saying that she trusts Boyd made me think. Knowing what happens with him, I don't think it's a coincidence that he was assigned to Echo and that she trusts him so much.

Poor Ivy, Dominic was gonna set her up to take the fall. So that's what that guy in the elevator was talking about when he said "It's been handled" or whatever. He's the one that planted the file for Sierra and was talking to Dominic on the phone. I don't think I got that until this viewing.

Adele sending Dominic to the attic was great. She came off super callus and threatening since she was holding that fencing sword thing. Dominic's talk to Echo in the back of the van was also brilliant. It went along with Adele not having Echo re-wiped and just letting her evolve. He's right, she can bring down the Dollhouse and they won't even see it coming. Makes me curious as to what Adele has up her sleeves for Echo. Why is she letting this happen. Just out of curiosity and wanting to see what happens to a doll that evolves?

Sidenote: The clothes the actives wear look super comfy and adorable. I want some!
I'm also curious about the staff members that teach art and yoga. How much do they know about what's going on?

@Blaze: I also am not clear what Mr. Dominic was trying to do.

 

[sk]

"Spy in the house of love"

So, another good episode that is more about the dollhouse itself instead of some random story.
There's a clear trend here. 🙂

Topher best in this episode too, some great fun there.
- Did I just loose an argument to a doll? lol

I'm not sure about Dominic's goal, or plan, either.
But somehow he just wanted to protect the technology. NSA would never allow it be public knowledge or something
Exactly what his involvement was in all these different incidents that has happen I'm not sure of though.

Adelle using a doll for her own use actually makes much sense.
Who else would she be able to tell everything?
Still kinda sad though... as it is with most of their customers I guess.

Also just want to ad that those transparent sheets, that they attach to some device to as a way to read files, are pretty cool. 🙂

"Haunted"

Back to a more standard episde.
A fairly good one with some good comedy with Echo as a "ghost".
Can not be easy coming back, after you've died, to realise that you might not have been so good of a mother after all.

Topher using a doll for some personal time felt a bit repetitive.
We just saw Adelle doing the same thing the episode before. Just in a slightly different way... 😉

It was a good, fun, moment though. So I still liked it.

What I reacted to the most in this episode was Ballard sleeping with Mellie, even after knowing she is a doll.

Isn't that a bit on the murky side?
What makes he now different to those clients he seemed to despised earlier?

I kinda like a "hero" that isn't super good and always perfect though.

/SK

 

[Blaze]

What I reacted to the most in this episode was Ballard sleeping with Mellie, even after knowing she is a doll.

Isn't that a bit on the murky side?
What makes he now different to those clients he seemed to despised earlier?

I kinda like a "hero" that isn't super good and always perfect though.

/SK

I also thought that this was swimming in murky water a bit. I don't like the idea of it at all, Paul is just using her at this point. Maybe he didn't want to change the way he acted towards her, but any way you put it it was to benefit himself and not Mellie/November.

And having sex with a doll, that either has no idea that their life is a lie or is in a state of permanent blankness, either way is not okay in my books.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

Haunted
Finally the credits come early. I don't know why but it's been bugging me how long it takes for the credits to come in.
Anyways. Not bad episode it has it's ups and downs. I like seeing Eliza play a different role, I think he did a decent job.

Topher creating a friend from a doll I think shows how lonely he truly is. It kind of sad really. The scene where the family is all talking about what a terrible person Margret was and her reactions to them I thought was amusing.
The scene where the son kisses his mom was funny. I like the line when he's like "You wanted to comfort me" and she's like "not with my tongue". I think Eliza does the comedy aspect really well.

Not liking Paul Ballard in this episode. Using Mellie and just being this creepy, paranoid guy.

Overall this is a good episode. It has some bad moments but it brings up a good concept of life after death.

Didn't really like the son killing his mom to pay off gambling debts. That just doesn't seem like a good enough reason to kill anyone especially your mother. Can't imagine how she felt, but it was nice that she could solve her murder and rewrite her will. Trying to make amends and taking care of her family before she dies was a good.

 

[Blaze]

Topher creating a friend from a doll I think shows how lonely he truly is. It kind of sad really.

This was the most interesting aspect of the episode for me. What's even more interesting is how Adele explains that she allows him a doll once a year knowing that Adele uses dolls herself.

I think it's a pretty big commentary as to how people with seemingly all the power in the world are the loneliest. I also think they did this to show that Adele using a doll wasn't an exception. I wasn't a big fan of Topher until now, but this episode I have to hand out my heart to him.

I love that in this show the protagonists are also sort of the villains, but they are so humanized that you can't see them as villains. You know they are doing a good job with the moral ambiguity when i think Adele and Topher are better people than Paul.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

It looks like she lets him do it every year on his birthday. That's what I took the candles in the twinkie to mean. It makes me wonder if Topher ever leaves the Dollhouse. I wonder what his parents think he does. Also I wanna know how old Topher is. mid to late 20's?

I agree that at this point I like Adele and Topher better than Paul even though he's supposed to be the good guy bringing down this corrupt/evil corporation. Topher and Adele feel more like real people. It is nice to see the humanizing aspects to them because it's relatable. I think we can all relate to that part of us that questions our morals or maybe chose to ignore them to do something we want to or think we believe in. It's easy to get caught up in things, like work, or give in to temptations and sort of forget who you are as a person. Deep down we all have the same desires and need to be loved and not be alone. Adele might be my favorite character on the show. She might come off as callus and a hard ass but she does show compassion for certain characters. In her defense it is probably hard to draw a line between work and your personal feelings in the Dollhouse because you get attached to people and become almost numb to what's really going on. Or like Topher who just thinks he's helping people. Anyways, that's my philosophical thoughts about the show.

 

[thetopher]

Sorry for the late-itude, busy doing a S1 Buffy watchthrough with my niece! 🙂

Anyway...

EP. 9 Spy In The House Of Love

If not the best episode of S1 this is certainly the cleverest by far. Nicely ambitious, with every character and doll getting something to do.

The opener is great and instantly had me hooked. Usually those 'cold openings in the middle of the action and then we flashback' are incredibely lazy ways to heighten tension, but this one works perfectly because of the payoff.

OMG I completely forgot about dominatrix Eliza. How the hell did that happen! 😛

It's so wrong that I really like her outfit...😀

On the other hand super-suave Roger is also...kinda distracting. Adele has good taste. 🙂
Also in the past I've really enjoyed fencing, so that was nice to see.

DeWitt was laugh out loud funny in her conversation with Dominic 'Maybe there'll be cake.' 🙂

This is a great mini spy movie, with Sierra inflitrating the NSA (at to be fair to the writers, I think the fact the the girl was asian is a coincindence. It was probably more the distinctive haircut that made it easier for her to pass.)

I think by this episode its obvious that Echo is a person, and no longer a doll. She exibits curiousity, as well as empathy, here but also reasoning, self-awareness and initiative in solving problem-solving. An actual person. 🙂

All the other stuff has pretty much being covered but as to Dominic's motivation/actions- he wants to kill Echo because he sees in her another Alpha, its that simple.
The fact that he used her to send a message to Paul I think is just Dominic using whatever 'tool' that was at his disposal.

As for the other stuff- trying to feed Ballard while also trying to stop him...I have no clue. He claims he's there just to monitor the dollhouse, to control/contain it and its technology, so why the hell is he trying to expose it? 😕

Still, all in all a stand-out episode. 🙂


Ep 10. Haunted

Another great idea for a one-shot, which is why I like this one so much. I know on one level this is pretty much like Dallas: The murder mystery game.
Rich people and horses and poison, jealousy, lies...

But a lot of it works. I quite like 'stuffy' Eliza, and I think she has fun with the role (she does 'outraged' surprisingly well.) and its nice to see her playing off Olivia like this. Like old friends. 🙂

The Topher subplot mirrored Adele's from the last episode very closely. All these people, who deal so clinically/cynically in fantasy/illusion, are all so lonely that they still need that same fantasy/illusion.
Human nature. 🙁

Of course, in this episode where Ballard is trying to find out the Dollhouse's true purpose, we're given the answer- immortality.

The ending was bittersweet for Maddie, torn by all the truths she'd discovered about her family but also being able to fix some of her mistakes. Wanting to stay but also knowing she couldn't. I actually really felt for her in those final moments, probably because she was so noble about it. I liked her, maybe wished that she had made another appearance on the show, otherwise she just 'died'.

I wondered if she was one of the imprints uploaded into Echo at the end of the season (along with all the other templates) and so maybe she got to live on in a 'self-aware' gestalt Echo- probably shocked at all her S2 'shinanigans'. 🙂

 

[Blaze]

Of course, in this episode where Ballard is trying to find out the Dollhouse's true purpose, we're given the answer- immortality.

The ending was bittersweet for Maddie, torn by all the truths she'd discovered about her family but also being able to fix some of her mistakes. Wanting to stay but also knowing she couldn't. I actually really felt for her in those final moments, probably because she was so noble about it. I liked her, maybe wished that she had made another appearance on the show, otherwise she just 'died'.

I wondered if she was one of the imprints uploaded into Echo at the end of the season (along with all the other templates) and so maybe she got to live on in a 'self-aware' gestalt Echo- probably shocked at all her S2 'shinanigans'. 🙂

That's interesting, I hadn't made the link about Dollhouse's true purpose that was being mentioned so often. I'm still not sure the answer is immortality, simply because immortality is rarely used on the show. Wouldn't it be something they exploit more readily if it was the purpose of the house. I wonder how much this power is abused in the other Dollhouses around the world.

I wonder how each personality felt in the "super" Echo. And since each personality is essentially just as real as me and you, wouldn't it such to share what body, one mind, with 20 other individuals. I can't picture having a jumbo mumbo of 20 humans in 1, you'd think that's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[thetopher]

That's interesting, I hadn't made the link about Dollhouse's true purpose that was being mentioned so often. I'm still not sure the answer is immortality, simply because immortality is rarely used on the show. Wouldn't it be something they exploit more readily if it was the purpose of the house. I wonder how much this power is abused in the other Dollhouses around the world.

I might be remembering it wrong but the reason that Echo is so special to the Dollhouse/Rossum, is that something about her solves the 'degredation' problem surrounding permentant imprints- the loss of self or whatever, but I could be remembering it wrong.

Of course the Dollhouse exists for other purposes, the acumulation of power through various means etc, but I'm sure the 'livng on in another body'=immortality is one of their ultimate goals. 🙂

On another note, I forgot to mention how much I disliked Paul Ballard using Mellie in the way he did. I know he felt bad afterwards but taking advantage like that...troubles me. I really had a problem with it. 🙁 (ot- I love these new little emoticons!)

Man, the character can't win with me, huh?
First off I think he's too perfect and then the writers give him faults and I don't like him for them. Ah, well.

I guess, ultimately he lacks believability as a character, unlike almost everybody else on the show, who are all wonderfully murky moral shades of grey-types

 

[Taake]

You know, on the one hand I do disagree with Paul for sleeping with Mellie after finding out that she is a Doll. But the first time he does it I mostly feel so bad for him - like the horror on his face when he finds out is just heartbreaking. What he does isn't right but I can appreciate that at the time his mind is kind of in shock and not really in a good state. So that one time I can 'understand', kind of.

Discussion 1:
I love "Spy in the house of love" so much in part because we get to see such a human side of Adelle. I think it's really beautiful how they portrayed her as Ms. Lonely hearts and how hard that is for her in the end. It's all just very sad.

Love2: That Topher not only thinks his man-friend Boyd is the spy but that he warns him first. 🙂 No wonder Boyd thinks of him as family later.
Love3: That Mr. Dominic is the spy. I loved him from the start but it is excellent that he, having been so close to Adelle, is the spy because it is surprising as well as kind of heartbreaking. Adelle may talk a big game but putting him in the Attic was hard on her. Though those scenes are absolutely delicious, they are so good together - "It's embarrasing how naive you are" ... and Adelle's cold "Then we'll put you back in your box" line are just... chills of greatness man. (also love the little 'spy movie' as called about with Sierra in the NSA)
Love4: Echo is a person now. I may not like Caroline (maybe that's why I don't like Caroline...) but I love Echo. (and I'm not a fan of her getting a new handler)

Echo: I can take care of myself.
Laurence Dominic: I know, that's why I'm smiling. 'Cause one day, you'll be erasing them. And even after all this, they still won't see it coming. Sooner or later, everybody gets theirs.

At this point, first time I watched, I remember being completely hooked to the show, which is why...

Discussion 2: I find "Haunted" a disappointment. It's like 'Murder, she wrote' without Angela Lansbury. I.e. not good.
Also the whole being present at your own funeral thing skeeves me out. I kind of feel like when that woman felt like she needed that, when she actually went to Adelle to make an imprint of herself in order to be able to investigate her own death... well the first time that thought hit her she probably should have just sat down and re-examined her life as it was and maybe made some priority changes.

So, meh, not an episode for me. A let down from the previous great ones.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

I do feel bad for Paul cause he thought Mellie was real and now he has to question his feelings. I also get that he has to pretend like every things ok but I don't think that's why he slept with her. I think he kind of realized how people can get caught up in these fantasies even though he's against the Dollhouse. That makes he a bit of a hypocrite. I also don't like him cause of this whole Caroline thing he has and it feels a bit cheap for him to use Mellie when all he cares about is saving Caroline.

 

[Taake]

I do feel bad for Paul cause he thought Mellie was real and now he has to question his feelings. I also get that he has to pretend like every things ok but I don't think that's why he slept with her. I think he kind of realized how people can get caught up in these fantasies even though he's against the Dollhouse. That makes he a bit of a hypocrite. I also don't like him cause of this whole Caroline thing he has and it feels a bit cheap for him to use Mellie when all he cares about is saving Caroline.

Oh I agree about Caroline et al and that sleeping with Mellie makes him a hypocrite. I just don't feel that in that one instance that he was in the position to realize anything. Considering how obsessed he is with the Dollhouse and their 'johns' I think the whole event was a bit traumatizing for him actually, knowing that he already had slept with her. I don't think either he slept with her to pretend that things were okay (he could have done that while still making an excuse not to) I really think he just didn't know how to deal.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

Oh I agree about Caroline et al and that sleeping with Mellie makes him a hypocrite. I just don't feel that in that one instance that he was in the position to realize anything. Considering how obsessed he is with the Dollhouse and their 'johns' I think the whole event was a bit traumatizing for him actually, knowing that he already had slept with her. I don't think either he slept with her to pretend that things were okay (he could have done that while still making an excuse not to) I really think he just didn't know how to deal.

Yea, there's no way to know how a person would really react in that situation. He just wants to be with the Mellie he knows and loves, so he gets caught up in his feelings for her forgetting for a second that shes a doll. With that said, I still don't like the whole thing.