Dollhouse Re-watch: "True Believer" & "Man on the Street"

[Taake]

Re-watch discussion;
episodes 5 & 6
"True Believer" (1) & "Man on the street" (2)​

Discussion 1: Again the plotline is just generic and boring, I feel like every crimeshow ever has already trodded down this path, and Dollhouse's twist is not all that original really.

That said I think Eliza is great in this episode, I think she did blind very well, it didn't seem forced at all.

My favorite part of the episode however is the first tentative steps of the Victor and Sierra love story (which I love) and Topher's "man reactions", lol. Topher <3

I realize too that Mr Dominic probably shouldn't get my love (and it's only part the actor) but I do really like him, even when he tries to get rid of Echo (gives Boyd another chance to shine 😉)

Discussion 2: Now this is where my Dollhouse love first took off. "Man on the street" will forever be one of my absolute favorite episodes.

Firstly, I love the Man on the Street segments, I kind of feel like they should have been in the pilot - just toss the viewer right in there, don't underestimate us, if we're interested we will catch up (rather than put up with five half-assed episodes to start) I also think the actors for those segments are brilliant.

I love that they dared to go there with Hearn and Sierra. It is like he says "did you think this would never happen?" It shows exactly the danger of the Dolls vulnerability and the nefariousness of the power of the handler/people in charge. We know now that there are more Dollhouses but can anyone say that they all run it like Adelle?

I really like Paul and Mellie together. Which is funny cause I don't necessarily like them all that much apart. Somehow two meh makes an okay 😉

I love the engagement with Joel, love Rebecka's imprint ("Is this a porn man?") and Paul's talk with Joel. Joel does hit it right out of the park when he claims that Paul has a 'save the damsel in distress' fantasy about Caroline, but I still think that's a week excuse for his obsession and still wish he would have had a personal connection to her.

Love seeing that brutal fight scene between Paul and Echo - though where is the kitchen staff?? - with them just throwing shit at each other, going nuts.

Awesome: "The Dollhouse deals in fantasy, that is its business, but that is not its purpose" The way ED says that gives me chills and really makes me want to know what their purpose is!

Also, Adelle love.
"I find it a bit sad that you think you're a candidate for anyone's fantasy"

"I played a bad hand very well. There is a distinction."


I'm gonna be honest, the first time I saw the attack scene on Mellie I almost started to cry, to this day I think that's one of the hardest scenes to watch because it is so brutal, but I'm madly in love with the twist ending to that scene. I remember being so surprised that Mellie was a Doll and so happy that she got up and kicked ass.
The Dollhouse is everywhere...

Finally, the song at the end of the episode is one of my favorite little ditties that I have on my ipod. I think it's such a dreamy little tune.

Thoughts on season so far:
It's starting to pick up and become as great as a Whedon show has the potential to be.

Query:
Knowing what we know, as re-watchers, about Boyd - don't you find his investment in Sierra's well-being interesting? Would he have done that for any other Doll or is it just because Sierra is part of Echo's family so to speak? Does he care about the Dolls? Here it seems like it, but put in perspective of what's coming it's a little bit more unclear...

 

[Blaze]

Before I review, I have to admit that I am completely addicted and have sort of been binge watching. I'm liking this series much better upon rewatch.

Discussion 1.
Not great episode, but good episode. I like the whole religious cult thing because sadly this is something that would be more than likely to happen in real life. Maybe it's because I'm atheist, but this whole craziness of a sect was interesting. I did like how they didn't make it entirely bad though. Aside from the leader, the whole thing was benign and even though it isn't a way of living I support, I like that they didn't just take the easy way out and portray the people as being unhappy or wanting out. It was a good twist that it was the police that wrote the note.

Dominic is a huge asshole. Do not like him. But I do love Adele, she's growing on me more and more. Boyd is good too, but knowing the ending kinda ruins it a bit. ED did good I thought with playing the blind girl, although the change in personality at the end when she throws punches seemed a bit misplaced.

Topher and the man reaction was just hilarious. And I'm starting to really really like Dr. Saunders.

Discussion 2.

What a GREAT episode. Seriously loved it. I think it did some good to have an episode focused on the story alone and not on some side story about an active in use. Also, this episode raised so many questions.

I felt really bad about the millionaire that hired Echo. I shouldn't have because in the end he's a bit of a pig for using an active, but his story just felt so genuine that it was hard not to feel bad. And it also made me think, he's imprinting the doll with his late wife Rebecca right? So how did the Dollhouse retrieve that personality, or did they build a personality to match Rebecca's? I want to learn more about how they get those imprints. Also, loved ED as Rebecca. The porn thing was hilarious.

Paul isn't really growing on me though, still think he's a dick. I'm loving Mellie though, what a sweatheart. And such a good revelation with the sleeper storyline. I remember the first time I saw it really surprised me, and still on a second watch I thought that was a brilliant twist. Even better that she killed that jerk.

Sierra's and Victor's storyline was also really good, sad, but really good. I thought they wrote it well. I also think Enver is one of the best actor, he's such a 180 from doll state to active state. I love his innocent childish look"¦and I won't complain about his body. That guy is seriously sexy in those tight shirt and yoga pants.

Loved the ending, and how Adele says she played a bad hand really well. The whole episode was really clever, exactly what I expect from Joss. And more importantly it wasn't cliché like the rest of the season has been so far (a good cliché, but one nonetheless). I'm quite happy that I have a bad memory, because I don't actually remembers what comes next. The inside man thing is really interesting.

---------- Post added at 08:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:37 AM ----------

Discussion 2: Now this is where my Dollhouse love first took off. "Man on the street" will forever be one of my absolute favorite episodes.

Firstly, I love the Man on the Street segments, I kind of feel like they should have been in the pilot - just toss the viewer right in there, don't underestimate us, if we're interested we will catch up (rather than put up with five half-assed episodes to start) I also think the actors for those segments are brilliant.

Completely agreed. From here on out the episodes are so much better than the first five. I'm wondering how much the Network had to do with this. I remember there was a lot of interview with Joss back when the show came out and on of the thing he talked about is how the network didn't give him the freedom to write what he wanted for the first few episodes. I wonder how true this is since I'm only saying this from memory, I'd have to do a bit of digging on the subject.

I love the engagement with Joel, love Rebecka's imprint ("Is this a porn man?") and Paul's talk with Joel. Joel does hit it right out of the park when he claims that Paul has a 'save the damsel in distress' fantasy about Caroline, but I still think that's a week excuse for his obsession and still wish he would have had a personal connection to her.

Also completely agree with this. I hate that the reason he wants to save her is because he feels like he has to play the big hero and save the girl. And maybe it's just me but I find it kinda creepy. The guy is pretty much obsessed with Caroline. He doesn't view her as a real person, he just views her as the girl that needs help and he can just swoops in and save the day. And why does he feel like it's aright to make his way to the Dollhouse by basically threatening and hitting everyone and everything he sees along the way. The guy just feels like a bit of an idiot. He's not invested in bringing down the Dollhouse, he's invested in saving Echo. Maybe I just don't like him because he's just another cliche.

Awesome: "The Dollhouse deals in fantasy, that is its business, but that is not its purpose" The way ED says that gives me chills and really makes me want to know what their purpose is!

I'm really curious about this too! Great line delivery.

Thoughts on season so far:
It's starting to pick up and become as great as a Whedon show has the potential to be.

I have to wonder if part of the show's demise is related to the first few episodes. I mean, I liked them enough to get me hooked, but they are no where near the quality of Man on the Street. And by this time people that didn't like the show stopped watching.

Query:
Knowing what we know, as re-watchers, about Boyd - don't you find his investment in Sierra's well-being interesting? Would he have done that for any other Doll or is it just because Sierra is part of Echo's family so to speak? Does he care about the Dolls? Here it seems like it, but put in perspective of what's coming it's a little bit more unclear...

This is an interesting point. It's funny because I sort of remember the twist ending but not enough to remember everything. So this time around I'm trying to really pay attention to Boyd. I remember I had a hard time believing the ending last time because of how involved he seemed with the dolls. For now it does seems like he really cares, but who knows.

 

[thetopher]

Ep 5: True Believer

Eh, Im not a big fan of this episode, very generic and I don't particularly like the whole 'creepy religious commune/cult' thing. It's a tired, religion-bashing trope that's been done to death on a bunch of shows.
I wiil admit that this episode at least subverts the plot somewhat by giving both sides hidden agendas.

- The opening is weird, are these people not allowed to speak to anybody, 'cause otherwise singing to somebody who's asking you a question is pretty rude. (Although annoying redneck bully is abnoxious)

- Makes sense that the Dollhouse would have a Senator on their payroll. I wonder if he's Republican or Democrat? 😛

- Again, we see a more likeable side of Ballard, talking to a work collegue instead of to a superior or an informant. I did laugh at his flawed flirting technique. 🙂

- I like that DeWitt admires/respects Echo's unique talents and understands their value. Dominic continues to be an uber-douche, about three times this episode I wanted to punch him.

- 'Sneezures'. 🙂

-Dr. Saunders seems to genuinely care about the mental/physical well-being of all the dolls, which is nice. And also ironic. 🙁

- Eliza plays a blind person reasonably well, I've see a couple better, and a whole lot worse. It's nice seeing her play somebody totally against type- quiet, gentle, religious. 🙂

- 'Man Reaction!' 🙂
- Topher and Saunders have a really nice rapport going on. And is it weird that I don't even notice the Doc's scars anymore?
I just keep on thinking 'Amy's so pretty!', like a big dope.

- I like that the ATF guy was ultimately the one who caused this mess, stirring things up and faking the cry for help.

- I liek the way that Esther was reading that bible passage out with a growing realisation of dread. That was nicely done- acting-wise and building tension.

- 'God has a message for you.' 'Move your ass!' 🙂

- The way Esther punched out that guy at the end I think she might be channeling another doll, the way she just lays him out with one punch.

- There are a couple of things in this episode that, in hindsight, are worth asking. Like what's with Dominic's reactions/amnosity to Echo, knowing about his own agenda.
And also Adele's decision to have Victor totally scrubbed- is Miss Lonelyhearts a bit jealous, or just protecting a favoured asset?

Overall probably my least favourite episode so far apart from the pilot. It had some good stuff, but I mainly liked the sub-plot rather than the main plot.
Again personal preference.

---------- Post added at 05:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:37 PM ----------

Ep 6 Man On The Street

This is where the show goes from good to brilliant!
It has so many good moments crammed into it, after this I was completely hooked. 🙂

-The documentary was a nice touch, but it probably would've been better putting it nearer the beginning of the season, or maybe as an intro in S2.
Here it just feels a little out of place- although the reactions range from the funny (the couple where the guy wonders what it would be like to be with another guy and the woman's reaction), the paranoid, the sweetly naive, to the chilling pronunciations of the scientist at the end. (We, as a species, will cease to matter.' 🙁)

- Ballard is back to being unlikeable again- assaulting a fellow agent is a big no-no, even if the guy was being a creep. Ballard is way out of control.

- 'Porn! Is this porn?' Love this. 🙂

- Patton Oswald is a great guest star. 'You put the guy doll on top of the girl doll and we learn about urges.'

- And he totally nails Ballard's fantasy 'damsel in distress' thing, the whole rescue/grattitude, which is really kind of sad- but for a man who's work is everything, what else is there.
Again, I think this is weak justification for a character to have.

-Miner's fantasy is actually a lot more heartfelt, kind of sweet and sad. I mean, it's wrong, it's certainly not healthy (how is he supposed to move on and find somebody else?) but you feel for the guy. 🙁

- I'm...not a big 'fan' of the rape sub-plot, I just find it uncomfortable. It's incredibly well-acted and disturbing- it's not done cheaply, and it has a sick kind of logic to it, but...I don't really have anything to add to what's already been said.
I did like Boyd knocking Hearn the f*** out though. 🙂

- OMG, Mellie is really sweet here. 'And you kissed him?'🙂
Although Ballard doing this now, after his conversation with Miner, is very telling. He has some murky motivations going on here.
- Plus I do like them as a couple ('My god, you're so neighbourly. 😀) these two are pretty great- I actually like them better together than otherwise, some couples are like that.

- DeWitt and Hearn talking about the dolls, and how they both see them is interesting. Showing both their 'work ethic'. Plus Hearn is a total scrote. 😡

- But the last ten minutes or so are television gold standard- they have everything, action, suspence and surprise twists.

Echo vs. Ballard is a really kick-ass fight scene with both of them going all out. One of the best of the show so far.
The Echo turns into a contact, and lets Ballard know that there are over twenty dollhouses 🙂eek🙂 world wide, upping the stakes. Eliza is so good here, the things she says and the way she says them, I actually got chills. 🙂

Then Mellie is attacked by Hearn and it turns out Mellie is a 'sleeper' doll! DeWitt totally set him up! Brilliant stuff, harrowing and utterly compelling tv.

The ending is pitch perfect, I like the song, Echo completing Miner's fantasy (and perhaps wanting to. Like she says- 'It's not finished')

After this episode the show really takes off.

To be honest, there aren't many shows that get this great after just 6 episodes, but because this is a Joss show people expected instant perfection.
But it takes time to tease out all the storylines and then weave them together into an episode that's this good- its all about the payoff imo, and the payoff is good. 🙂


Man, I can't wait for next week, 'cause the next episode is even better! 🙂

 

[Taake]

I have to wonder if part of the show's demise is related to the first few episodes. I mean, I liked them enough to get me hooked, but they are no where near the quality of Man on the Street. And by this time people that didn't like the show stopped watching.

I definitely think the show's demise is related to the network's insistance on a generic beginning. I think they were hoping to draw a bigger crowd but only managed to exclude the people who could potentially have gotten interested. I don't think Dollhouse could ever have been 'mainstream' like I'm guessing the network's hope was. It is more of a fringe show. And lets face it, few people stick around until the sixth episode in the hopes of things getting better. If things aren't grabbing a hold of you by at least episode 3 you're only gonna stick around if there's another motivation behind it as well (like being interested in the show for ED's or Whedon's sake)

Also agree with what you said about Paul. I don't think I reflected enough on it the first time around but I really don't like him right now. I think it's shady that he's so obessed with Caroline and like you said, mostly invested in saving her and not all of the Dolls.That more seems like a bonus to him. Caroline is the mission. (even if they try to dance around that by that speech he gives to Mellie when she calls him out on his clear "save her" comment regarding Caroline) He's a failing hero trope that just doesn't work for me.

 

[Taake]

- I like that the ATF guy was ultimately the one who caused this mess, stirring things up and faking the cry for help.

My favorite part with him is when he tells the news team there are no more survivors and Boyd comes out with Echo behind him... the look on his face and his flat "Thank God" is priceless!

- The way Esther punched out that guy at the end I think she might be channeling another doll, the way she just lays him out with one punch.

Interesting, didn't think about that but that's probably true. It wasn't very Esther like.

- There are a couple of things in this episode that, in hindsight, are worth asking. Like what's with Dominic's reactions/amnosity to Echo, knowing about his own agenda.

I think Mr. Dominic is just keen on keeping things running smoothly, especially considering his own agenda. He doesn't want wrinkles or troubles or concerns. He wants things within his own control and Echo is very clearly out of everyone's control... she's an unexpected element and that could make things more difficult for him as well.

Here it just feels a little out of place- although the reactions range from the funny (the couple where the guy wonders what it would be like to be with another guy and the woman's reaction), the paranoid, the sweetly naive, to the chilling pronunciations of the scientist at the end. (We, as a species, will cease to matter.' 🙁)

The woman's reaction is perfection! Love the chilling scientist guy... actually love all of them.

-Miner's fantasy is actually a lot more heartfelt, kind of sweet and sad. I mean, it's wrong, it's certainly not healthy (how is he supposed to move on and find somebody else?) but you feel for the guy. 🙁

I love his story because you do feel for him. Knowing it's morally debatable, knowing he's basically hiring someone to have sex with... you still feel for the guy. It's what is so incredibly interesting about the idea behind the Dollhouse. What is morally permissible and what isn't?

(also, minor side note to a great episode: but how did they get the imprint of Miner's wife? She died in a car crash... are we supposed to believe they had her scan before that or that they just created a kind of fake amalgamation of her?)

 

[Fuffy Baith]

True Believer
The technology and idea of turning your eyes into cameras is crazy and creepy to think about if it really could happen.
I love the interaction between Topher and Dr. Saunders. Finding out that Victor likes Sierra was cute. Even in doll state he has feelings for her.
I don't really have anything to say about the fanatic religious cult I thought it was meh.
Mellie bringing Paul his meds and a huge dish of pasta was sweet. I feel bad for her that all he cares about is Caroline.
I laughed at out loud when Paul says 'well that little bastard' about the mail man being lazy. So now that Paul knows Caroline is real and out there does it make his motives any better? I guess, but I still don't care.

Man on The Street
Great episode, one of the best in s1. I love the intro scene and interviews with everyone on the streets. The guy talking about being with another dude and the look on his wifes face was great.
Poor Victor when he touches Sierra and she screams. It's soo cute that he cares about her in his doll state. I really love the story that develops between them.
Paul and Mellie eating chinesse on the couch and talking was nice and sweet. And Paul looks great with his shirt off too.
Is it me or do the credits start a little late in the show?
One thing I really liked was seeing the other handlers and Boyd interacting with them. Even though Hern was a disgusting creep. Poor Sierra 🙁 At least he got his ass handed to him by Mellie. I was so shocked the first time I saw this. Great twist. Although I'm curious as to how long Mellie has been a sleeper agent living next to Paul, because Hern didn't know she was a doll.

We know now that there are more Dollhouses but can anyone say that they all run it like Adelle?

Judging by the way Mr. Dominic reacts to her decisions and questions her, I would say that Adele runs things differently then other Dollhouses. And it's good to know there's more than one, it makes sense.

I love the engagement with Joel, love Rebecka's imprint ("Is this a porn man?") and Paul's talk with Joel. Joel does hit it right out of the park when he claims that Paul has a 'save the damsel in distress' fantasy about Caroline, but I still think that's a week excuse for his obsession and still wish he would have had a personal connection to her.

Love the porn joke, I think Eliza does comedy well. And yea I don't like Paul's obsession with Caroline.

Also, Adelle love."I find it a bit sad that you think you're a candidate for anyone's fantasy"

Adele is awesome and that line was great.

Knowing what we know, as re-watchers, about Boyd - don't you find his investment in Sierra's well-being interesting? Would he have done that for any other Doll or is it just because Sierra is part of Echo's family so to speak? Does he care about the Dolls? Here it seems like it, but put in perspective of what's coming it's a little bit more unclear...

Did Joss always intend for Boyd to end up that way? Cause at this point I think Boyd really does care about the dolls but he's also doing his job and having a guy like Hern working for them is not good for the Dollhouse.

ED did good I thought with playing the blind girl, although the change in personality at the end when she throws punches seemed a bit misplaced.

Yea her change in personality to being in control and punching people I thought was out of character for the sweet, religious, blind lady that we were given.

And it also made me think, he's imprinting the doll with his late wife Rebecca right? So how did the Dollhouse retrieve that personality, or did they build a personality to match Rebecca's? I want to learn more about how they get those imprints.

Good question. I also would like to know. I'm going to guess that Joel Minor just told them everything he knew about his wife and they created the imprint.

I also think Enver is one of the best actor, he's such a 180 from doll state to active state. I love his innocent childish look"¦and I won't complain about his body. That guy is seriously sexy in those tight shirt and yoga pants.

Yes! Enver is great! Mmm he does look good in those tight shirts and yoga pants. Also I really like Eliza doing the doll state too. I think they all do a good job portraying the childlike innocence that the dolls are supposed to be in.

 

[Taake]

Yes! Enver is great! Mmm he does look good in those tight shirts and yoga pants.

Can't help but agree with this 😀

I think he has the widest range of all the actors on the show which really comes across as the show goes on (like when he's 'Topher'), he seems able to do just about anything.

Also I really like Eliza doing the doll state too. I think they all do a good job portraying the childlike innocence that the dolls are supposed to be in.

I love Eliza in the Doll state because she is convincingly childlike and innocent and at the same time very subtly aware... it's a fine line to dance but she does it beautifully as Echo progresses.

Did Joss always intend for Boyd to end up that way? Cause at this point I think Boyd really does care about the dolls but he's also doing his job and having a guy like Hern working for them is not good for the Dollhouse.

I really doubt Joss always intended it. I've re-watched Dollhouse before and tried to scrutinize Boyd then too... it doesn't track for me. But maybe that's because the ending of season two got kind of rushed. If there'd been more time perhaps it would have been explained in a better way...

 

[sk]

True Believer

I kinda liked this episode. Sure, it's a standard episode, nothing special really.
But still, it managed to keep my attention throughout.

I liked that none of the followers actually felt threaten and wanted to be saved.
It was a nice little twist that I had completely forgot.

Again it's Topher and his "man reaction" that makes the episode though. 🙂

Man on The Street

Agree that this episode stands out.
Also find it by far the funniest episode so far. It has a bunch of great moments.

The Sierra story is disturbing though. Gotta love Boyd punching Hearn at the end.

Great fight scene between Echo and Ballard. Looks like it really hurts.
Think they kinda gave it away that something would be up with Echo's imprint when they made Topher leave the office in middle of his programming though.
But then I guess it's good that we could see it, all these random twists can be annoying too.

I will remember that when I watched this the first time I almost got tired when Mellie also was revealed as a doll.
It got a bit too much that everyone was a doll in the end.
This time I kinda looked forward to see the transformation and see Mellie kick Hearn's ass. A great moment. 🙂

Overall a great episode. Much because it's not a throw away story I guess.
Instead it's mostly about the Dollhouse itself and it gives us a lot more background and interesting stuff.
I want more of that.

- The way Esther punched out that guy at the end I think she might be channeling another doll, the way she just lays him out with one punch

I though that already when that cult leader was about to hit her the second time.
It felt very out of character for Esther. But not for some old Doll that perhaps surfaced.

Love seeing that brutal fight scene between Paul and Echo - though where is the kitchen staff?? - with them just throwing shit at each other, going nuts.

Well, if I saw that two people was about to go crazy against each other I would clear out too. 😉

/SK

 

[MarlieTheSlayer]

True Believer isn't bad, but it does get boring sometimes. Even though it has it's moments, I still don't like rewatching it.

Man On The Street, on the other hand, is amazing! I love the interactions between Paul and Mellie and that we finally don't focus on Echo's engagement.
The fight scene in the kitchen was absolutly badass!

Miracle Laurie did a great job with the transition between being a cold hearted killer and a victem who is crying out of shock. On my first watch I was totallly shocked and sad when it turned out that she's a doll.

 

[Taake]

Miracle Laurie did a great job with the transition between being a cold hearted killer and a victem who is crying out of shock. On my first watch I was totallly shocked and sad when it turned out that she's a doll.

Agree, she does a great shift there! Gosh my first watch, when she's attacked - I was so horrified - and actually relieved to find her to be a sleeper doll 😛