Double standards inside the groups..

M

mire

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this as always bugged me but did anyone else noticed that both the scooby gang as well as the fang gang have double standards either to the "evil guys" but also inside their groups?
what i mean is that in btvs if anyone from inside the scooby gang dd a mistake, almost never had severe consequences.. e.g: giles killed ben to kill glory, and it never was mentioned again..
Willow's "puninshment" for killing warren was a trip to england and a free "you're free of jail card" when she got back.. and im saying this although i was very happy when she killed the guy, it was still wrong..
spike, after helping them (when he could just simply kill demons and not help them) was still treated as a "discusting soulles creature"..
Faith was looked as a criminous when she accidently kill Finch.. (i didn't saw buffy saying to willow to tell the police she skinned a guy..)
And buffy has diferent standarts for everyone.. when anya killed those college boys, she was all ready to kill, but she never really tryed to kill Willow ehne in s7 she came back and buffy thought she might have killed that man.. and in S3 when Angel returned from hell (and she still didn't know if he was "bad" agin or not) she wasen't even considering the chance of having to kill him..

Ans fot the Fang gang, when angel tryed to kill Weasley after he kidnap connor everyone know it was wrong.. but when weasley shot taht lawer just for complaining or killed knox noone said anything about it..

well..it's problably a very confusing text.. but my point was that both groups (even after gray being lots of times showed) kept drawing a white/black line.. if its a "bad guy" killing an innocent or torturing someone it's very wrong.. but if it's a "good guy" it's not acceptable, but they never have a severe cnsequences..
 
it shows the layers of solidarity in each group and the severity of each crime. Of course it's easier to forgive Willow, she's a loveable red head human with cute clothes who talks like Joss Whedon. It's more understandable to harbor a grudge towards Spike, a soulless mass murderer who hasn't been with the scoobies as long.
 
Giles - always has been dangerous and he has done most of his psychological developing. Buffy was dead so she never got to put any pressure on him and i imagine after coming back she didn't care to talk about glory.
Willow - destoyed all evidence, and threatened the world, buffy wanted to help her but i imagine she would have taken the witch out if needs be and she could. she loves willow, that makes all the difference.
Spike- was souless, only playing nice cos he had no choice, like many other buffy must have found it hard to belive that a creature without a soul can love. She was mistaken, everyone makes mistakes, and as souless as he was, she learnt to trust him, remember he did spend a good portion of his time trying to kill her and her loved ones.
Anya-made the choice to be a demon again, she chose to put herself into the position to kill those nboys. thats' cold blooded murder.
Faith- the mayors deputy was an accident but the demon selling books was not. Ok a small infraction, he was a demon anyways, but what of the volcanologist. he was innocent, and she murdered him in cold blood. her inner turmoil concerned buffy for awhile, right up until it threatend her and her freinds. even then buffy suggests that faith might need help when she finds out that she has woken from the coma. and even after all that...faith is accepted in s7.

there are different standards and murder isn't as simple as that there ar levels and these instances reflect that. even buffy killed human but only in self defence.
 
I think there is a huge double standard, and I'd rant about it for ages, but I've spent most of that ranting in the Buffy's a Killer thread...
 
Actually, I cannot figure out what the Scoobies could have done to Willow, after Xander stopped her from destroying the world. Buffy couldn't turn her over to the police. Willow had killed both Warren and Rack, using supernatural means. As for giving her the cold shoulder upon her return in early S7 - why bother, since they didn't do the same to Anya after the latter had given up her demon powers after "Selfless".

Now, Buffy could have turned Andrew over to the police for the robbery attempt in "Seeing Red", but not for Jonathan's murder, since Wood had hidden the body and Andrew had cleaned the weapon.

I could understand their attitude toward Spike pre-Season 6. Afterward, I don't know. Sure, Spike had the attempted rape over his head, but I didn't see Buffy confessing to what she had done to him. Nor did anyone bother to castigate Xander for trying to murder Spike, because the latter had simply slept with Anya.


I'm not going to go into the Fang Gang, because they had really disgusted me in Season 5. Especially the events of "Shell" and "Not Fade Away".
 
Buffy slept with Spike, okay so she may of used him but thats not a criminal offence. Okay she hit him but shes hit him for years, its not a big change because they got groiny. Spike raped her (as in violated her, I know there was no actual rape but that kind of violation is still rape). Xander wanted to murder Spike? He wanted to slay Spike, of which he has done a few, Buffy many more. Why would anyway complain to Xander about killing a vampire.
 
AshSan said:
Buffy slept with Spike, okay so she may of used him but thats not a criminal offence. Okay she hit him but shes hit him for years, its not a big change because they got groiny. Spike raped her (as in violated her, I know there was no actual rape but that kind of violation is still rape). Xander wanted to murder Spike? He wanted to slay Spike, of which he has done a few, Buffy many more. Why would anyway complain to Xander about killing a vampire.
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One, Spike almost raped Buffy in "Seeing Red". Two, Buffy nearly raped Spike in "Gone". The fact that he had eventually consented to sex, saved her from being labeled as a rapist. Three, Xander wanted to kill Spike, because the latter had sex with Anya in "Entropy". Worse, Spike would not have been able to defend himself, thanks to the chip. So, yeah, Xander's actions in that episode could be labeled as attempted murder.
 
It was attempted murder but i understand it, and i could excuse it. You know if it were my friend, i had been lying to him, and what had just happened in his life had happened. It's like i don't really care that willow killed warren, but then i don't have much of a problem with revenge its one of the most basic and primal emotions and actions. not saying its right, just saying what it is.
 
LadyLavinia said:
One, Spike almost raped Buffy in "Seeing Red". Two, Buffy nearly raped Spike in "Gone". The fact that he had eventually consented to sex, saved her from being labeled as a rapist. Three, Xander wanted to kill Spike, because the latter had sex with Anya in "Entropy". Worse, Spike would not have been able to defend himself, thanks to the chip. So, yeah, Xander's actions in that episode could be labeled as attempted murder.
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good point LadyLavinia.. i never actually looked that way..
stormwolfe: but iffBuffy and the scoobies didn't trust Spike, why let Dawn whit him? it's a contradiction.. coz if he was 'evil' in the true sence of the word, he may not be able yo hurt her by himself, but nthing would stop him from leting other demons hurt her..
and in my point of view the scoobies never stood really by faith after the accident.. or before.. why the hell do Buffy keeps pushing her to tell something, when she's clearly having a huge denial thing?? Faith had not reason to trust them, they never really let her enter the group.. and she only was helpful to them in slaying..
 
yeah i know i disagree with the way faith was treated. Buffy was wigging out about another slayer being perminantly around, ok, but they shouldn't have pushed her the way they did.
As for spike. unable to love is different to caring, or being trust worthy. I don't like the way xander treats spike or angel for that matter but when the chips are down even he will go to them for help if its needed. besides who else to leave spike with, is there anyone strong enough to leave her with?
 
I'd disagree with Faith being accepted. The Scoobies never dealt with her properly. Though she may have done so (Personally, I think it was a missed opportunity for a terrific scene), we never saw her make up to Willow for holding a knife to her throat. Or Xander for Samantha-Jonesing him and then nearly lethally scarfing him. She was tolerated because they needed the extra muscle. Buffy and her reached an understanding, but that's not the same as acceptance. One possible exception is Giles, bless him, who's rather sweet.
 
LadyLavinia said:
One, Spike almost raped Buffy in "Seeing Red". Two, Buffy nearly raped Spike in "Gone". The fact that he had eventually consented to sex, saved her from being labeled as a rapist. Three, Xander wanted to kill Spike, because the latter had sex with Anya in "Entropy". Worse, Spike would not have been able to defend himself, thanks to the chip. So, yeah, Xander's actions in that episode could be labeled as attempted murder.
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I'll give you attempted murder if you give me rape (that came out wrong).

1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse.
2. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction.
3. Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice.

I'd say he also raped Willow in The Initiative.
 
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