Downfall of Season Seven

[Tranquillity]

I love Season Seven. There is only one episode i regularly skip in my re-watching of the series (which is Help). I've just watched all the series with my daughter (her first time viewing them) and season seven is the one she's enjoyed the most as a new viewer. I think it is us obsessive watchers who begin to pick holes in this season. I'm not saying there is not some problems with it - yes there are some dropped story lines and with all those new characters it does marginalise the core group to some extent. Also, the season really is about Buffy becoming a leader and Spike becoming a champion so most of the stories of the season tend to reflect this so the other scoobies were moved to supporting rolls. I can't be critical of either the acting or the writing of this season as i find it to be very authentic, vintage Buffy.

 

[mogwaid]

I heard Joss was planning to do more with Buffy training Dawn and with Dawn's new friends but whoever the "higher up" people were for the show, told Joss not to focus on Dawn so much. But who knows how much truth there is to that.

Im glad they didnt. Can you imagine MORE characters? Esp since some main characters were being pushed to the back anyway? If they introduced Dawn's storyline, her friends etc, there would have been less scenes with the core scoobies.

 

[CharmedSlayer85]

Yeah I just wish that there was more of the core four storylines throughout Season Seven. I mean considering it was the last season and they were the ones that started the show way back when and the theme of season seven was "Back to the Beginning." So they could've gone back with the whole Willow needing to hack into the computer, etc.

 

[white avenger]

I agree with all of the inconsistencies mentioned here, plus I would like to add a few of my own if you will allow me:

1)Giles' statement that "now there are only a few remaining" in referring to the Potentials, to me at least means A FEW, as in, at the most, several dozen. Are we to believe that there are not only "Potentials" who are known to the Council and also an army of "potential Potentials" who number in the thousands scattered throughout the world?

2)However many Potentials there are, the Bringers are in the process of slaughtering all that they can find, on a global scale. If there are so many thousands of these girls, surely someone would recognize a pattern and begin an investigation.

But the absolute biggest of all...

3)Buffy, through the vision given her by the Shadow Men, knows that there are literaly thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of uber vamps inside the hellmouth, and she thinks that a few dozen newly called and very inexperienced Slayers would be anything more than a light snack to such a hoarde (remember, she has no knowledge of the amulet's power until it activates).

and, last but most certainly noy least...

4)She keeps Robin Wood in her fighting force after he attempted to kill Spike, her most powerful ally, because she "needs all the help she can get" in the upcoming fight, but sends Angel away to "form a second front" (where does he have access to any such fighting force? Buffy has no knowledge of Angel's affiliation with Wolfram and Hart and its vast resources at that time.)

I have a much longer list, but those are the main ones.
wa

 

[MrGordo]

Ok so I've just been rewatching season 7, and I've found lots and lots of (small) things that bother me, I always thought of s7 as the weakest season of Buffy when it comes to writing especially around the middle. Anyways one of the things that is bugging me is- the potentials- they're meant to be quite young so how come they're all alone in Sunnydale with a stranger, I mean who are their parents? it seems as though there was an explanation missing, which is something that repeated itself all throughout the season, I don't know about you but I always got the feeling like there was something missing, like they didn't have the time to explain things in-depth. Oh and it was also really boring that the First was Buffy most of the time, obviously some sort of budget issue the writers must have thought 'Oh Buffy's dead we can use her' and then abused the thought! Wouldn't it have been much better if the First took the form of Buffy only every once in a while? Well despite its obvious flaws s7 has its good things, like Andrew, and oh do I miss it, i miss my Buffy (I say this while I await my copy of the newest Buffy comic)

 

[Jade In The Sky]

I don't know if it's the worst but it's the scarest for me so far. I've never watched the whole series for season 7, I know what will happen b/c of all the info that passed through my head and via you tube 😀 . But recently I started downloading them from ep1. I haven't reached the Potential's episode yet but darn those so far seemed so scary! Mainly Beneath You, Selfless and the part with Dawn in Conversations. James, Michelle and Emma played so well there. I even think Beneath You is both the most terrifying and yet my favourite episode with Spike. Looking him reaveal his insanity was the hardest thing to watch but it was amazingly performed. ( and he looked soo sexy in that blue outfit *sighs* ).

I'll tell you later on if my opinion has changed lol Several days and I will have finished it.

 

[Bishop Cruz]

Season 7's biggest problem was the lack of polish IMO. Conceptually it wasn't that bad, but in excecution, it failed miserably. I LOVED early S7 because it really felt that Buffy had gone back to form, we had the high school again, Buffy actually helping people who weren't scoobies, Buffy and Xander as surrogate parents to Dawn. Everything was set up so well.

After about the first thrid of the season however things started mucking up. They spent far too long deciding whether Giles was dead or not, had no idea how to differentiate Spike with a soul from Spike without one, (VERY true in late S7.) and marginalized the core characters that they were supposed to have been focused on.

Continuity was a complete mess, the writing was fairly lackluster, the amulet and Scythe came out of NOWHERE, and the First went from being e pretty damned cool villain to well a joke by the end of the season. It really is a shame, because there is some good stuff there, but to a hardcore follower of Buffy, the season just felt rushed and directionless. It's like they had an endpoint in mind, but had no idea of how to actually get there.

So, much like S4, S7 was a good concept that was marred by sub standard execution.

 

[CharmedSlayer85]

I liked the Potentials, and to me it makes perfect sense to introduce them in the LAST season. Who would want them introduced earlier and THEN have them there for multiple seasons? The Potential storyline was awesome, I thought. And the montage when Willow turned all the Potentials into actual Slayers? Awesomeness.

I do agree that someone should have died. It should have been Xander.

In the DVD commentary for the episode "Dirty Girls", writer Drew Goddard mentions there was talk of killing off Xander towards the end of Season 7 and having The First Evil assume Xander's appearance when conversing with Buffy for the remainder of the season. This was ultimately decided against since Xander was thought to be too important to the series, and that his death occurring so late in the season would leave little time to deal with it correctly, and that throughout the series' run, Xander was the one character who never wavered, and to punish that characteristic with death would send a message the staff wasn't trying to get across.

 

[Jade In The Sky]

I finally watched the whole season and I did like it.

Everything that you said ( Bishop Cruz ) however is true. Yup, I agree with all of it. Your reflections which I have read in one form or another in this and other threads passed through my head too. I especially didn't like that Spike didn't say almost a word with the other scoobies like Dawn for example and you could see the development of his relationship only with Buffy ( and maybe Faith and Wood 😀 ).

But there were lots of memorable scenes which I honestly appreciate and when thinking of season 7 I try to accentuate on them not on what is missing or is wrong. Like the first of the many speeches of Buffy "I am beyond scared...they want an apocalypse?" etc etc. Or the episode where Dawn thought she was a potential and they showed how grown-up she has become. Those were just wonderful.

 

[Wicca-Who-Wont-a]

I have a question about the very start of season 7. When Willow was in the library and made one of its first appearance's as the young girl from sunnydale who died (cant remember her name) and claimed she was there with a message from tara, why did the first not take the form of tara? I think it would have been more dramatic if it did. Also at the beggining if season 7 Buffy had such a hard time fighting the uber vamps, then in the lat episode all the potentials, who had nowhere near the same amount of strength and experience as Buffy, were able to fight and even kill the vampires that had been built up as an impossible enemy at the start of the season.

 

[Bishop Cruz]

That was originally the plan. Somewhere on line there is an unused shooting script which has the role as it was written for Tara. I believe that Amber Benson was offered to be in the episode but declined because she didn't want to play Tara as evil or somesuch. Or that's the rumor anyway.

I was supremely annoyed that Xander wasn't in that episode though.
Jesse!First would have been a great addition to the episode.

 

[nerd4hire]

Here's the quote from Amber in an interview with the BBC.

Picture Can you tell us why you chose not to return for season seven?

I wish that we could have worked it out but there were extenuating circumstances that I don't really want to go into.

I would love to have come back but sometimes there are things in your life that you have to stand up for and to tell you the God's honest truth, I really didn't want Tara to be bad, and that would have been a component of me coming back.

As much as I wanted to come back - and I almost did - that was something that was dogging my not wanting to come back. I just felt like people really loved that character and for her to be bad would just destroy people. So that was one of the reasons I didn't go back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/buffy/interviews/benson2003/page4.shtml

On the other hand, here's what they claim at Wikipedia.

In to the commentary for this episode on the DVD, the writers claim that Amber Benson simply wasn't available.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversations_with_Dead_People_(Buffy_episode)

On the sudden lameness of the Turok Han, that's an oft discussed topic. I'm told they tell us in the DVD commentary it was just something they decided to do, because it was convenient to do it.

Personally I can't resist a couple of fanwanks there. Anya is lecturing the potentials at one point, and tells them it is possible to stake an uber vamp, but it's just a little harder than they first thought, so one can postulate specialized training after more information is available. The first ubie was a surprise to them, and they didn't really know how the mechanics of the turok han worked.

Also there is the scene where Spike is used to summon the first ube. There is a ritual, and mystical symbols are cut into Spike's flesh. Later we are told a special knife was needed. I tell myself the first one was given special power in a magic ritual.

 

[Wicca-Who-Wont-a]

good theory , and thanks for the info on why amber wasn't there n4h

 

[CharmedSlayer85]

Also there was a plan to bring Tara back to life permanently, but Amber Benson wasn't available for filming so they scratched that idea, that could be possibly what wikipedia was talking about, because Tara was suppose to return back to life. Hopefully it's something they do in the comics cause they dont' have to worry about actor availability. This is basically the premise of everything:

While speaking at the Wizard World Chicago Convention in August 2004, Joss Whedon claimed that he had planned to bring Tara back from the dead at the end of Season Seven. According to Whedon, the episode would have centered around Buffy being granted one "life-altering" wish. Buffy would have spent the whole episode trying to decide what she wanted to do with the wish (including, possibly, restoring Angel's humanity). The episode would have ended with Buffy telling Willow that she'd just gotten a great new pair of shoes, and when Willow asked her if she used up her wish on new shoes, Buffy would have said, "No, silly!" and stepped aside to reveal Tara. This plan was abandoned when Amber Benson was unavailable for filming.

Edit:

Other storylines considered were for Eric Balfour, who played Jesse McNally in the pilot episode, "Welcome to the Hellmouth," to have conversed with Xander[citation needed]; and, according to Drew Goddard on the "Selfless" DVD commentary, for Kali Rocha (Halfrek) to return and haunt Anya, but she was unavailable.

And also according to wikipedia the reason they said Scott Hope was gay was because the actor at that time was on Queer As Folk playing a major role as Ethan the gay violinist who was dating Justin

 

[nerd4hire]

Here's an old, dead, thread that might be fun to check out.

Possible Storylines

 

[Spirit_Of_Fred]

Other storylines considered were for Eric Balfour, who played Jesse McNally in the pilot episode, "Welcome to the Hellmouth," to have conversed with Xander[citation needed]; and, according to Drew Goddard on the "Selfless" DVD commentary, for Kali Rocha (Halfrek) to return and haunt Anya, but she was unavailable.

aw, now that would have been awesome! 🙁 i was upset that xander wasnt in this episode, and i like hallie. also, one of my hatreds of season 7 is a lack of my favorite characters. i mean, hello, tara is dead, and anya got one big episode and then went away. the thing with hallie would have put anya in one of those important episodes, and just plain put her in another one with a more important role! jesse would have been good for xander to see based on how sad it was for him to lose his friend so early, how it introduced him to the buffy-demons world, and how he had to "kill him" (although he was pushed into it). and as far as hallie, well, it was kind of anya's fault she died, so...

then again, with two extra character storylines, everyone else's would have to be cut, and im not sure what i would want to lose from that ep 🙁.

EDIT:
and that said, i do like many aspects of season 7, i just share MUCH of the criticisms, which makes me not like it :silly:

 

[Fallen Angelus]

Personally I can't resist a couple of fanwanks there. Anya is lecturing the potentials at one point, and tells them it is possible to stake an uber vamp, but it's just a little harder than they first thought, so one can postulate specialized training after more information is available. The first ubie was a surprise to them, and they didn't really know how the mechanics of the turok han worked.

I once heard a fanwank that the original Turok-Han was some kind of supreme warrior amongst the population, so he was sent out first, and the rest were weaker.

As for Season 7, I think the main problems, aside from some plot holes and leaps in logic, was just that there were too many missed opportunities.

Firstly, you have...well, the First. After a while, the First was really just assuming a few roles, and it got tiresome seeing it as Buffy. I understand that there are some restrictions because of the availability of actors, but I wish we'd gotten to see the First as more of a "who's who" of old characters - at least, more than the couple of times we did (I'm thinking of the ending to Lessons). I also think the First, as a villain whose main power is psychological, could have been utilized to torment the heroes even more.

I also thought that there were some missed opportunities when it came to Spike as well. At the beginning of the season, I loved that his soul had (apparently, at the time) driven him crazy, because I was terrified at the end of Season 6 that it was going to be nothing but Angel-redux. However, I always felt that Spike mellowing out as soon as he was out of the Sunnydale High basement was a poor choice. I don't mind the First tormenting him and therefore adding to his insanity, but I kind of wish his fight back to sanity would've been a bit more substantial. It would've made things a lot more interesting in Season 7, and it would have made Spike's story arc (and his pivotal moments in Get it Done and Chosen) that much more powerful.

And Giles. Oh, Giles. Not that I want you to be dead, but I really wish that the writers had stuck to their guns and not changed their minds about you as soon as all of fandom figured out that you were actually dead.

There's more, but I have to rack my brain to remember. It's been a long time since I've watched any episode from Season 7...

 

[Spirit_Of_Fred]

And Giles. Oh, Giles. Not that I want you to be dead, but I really wish that the writers had stuck to their guns and not changed their minds about you as soon as all of fandom figured out that you were actually dead.

he was actually supposed to be dead? really? i never heard about that; what's up with that?

 

[Fallen Angelus]

he was actually supposed to be dead? really? i never heard about that; what's up with that?

Well, don't quote me on this, but I believe that the original intention was for Giles to have been killed by that Bringer with the axe, and the Giles that was helping Buffy collect potentials was supposed to be the First. There were a lot of subtle clues in the episodes leading up to the "reveal" - for example, Giles didn't touch anything or anyone, a la the First.

If I remember correctly, this was the direction they were originally taking things in, but most viewers caught on to Giles and his no physical contact and figured it out in pretty quick order.

It may have always been their intention for it to be a fake-out, but I'm pretty sure they changed it and made Giles alive after all once everybody figured out what was going on.

 

[Your Creamy Coolness]

So Giles lived only cause people figured it out? That is weird. If I wrote something I would stick to it, not that I want Giles to die. It would have been shocking though.