Doyle's vision

[EffieT1]

In the buffy angel crossover doyle has a vision about buffy in danger and angel comes to sunnydale to protect her. basically the threat was the Native American spirit, whilst i recognise that the spirit was moderately threatning and angel did save buffy by sending that flying knife towards the warrior she didnt see behind her I just think that his prescense in this case was kinda pointless and he didnt really do much. Also am i the only one who thinks that they could have come up with a better threat for doyle's vision? I mean come on, in my opinion even kathy (the roommate) would have been better in this scenario- even though not as powerful as the spirit she was an internal threat no one saw coming- although not by much. Buffy's been through way worse villians of the week and in way more danger than this, just saying.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

am i the only one who thinks that they could have come up with a better threat for doyle's vision? I mean come on

While this threat surely doesn't even rank amongst the most dangerous, as Spike says, it only takes one baddie to kill a slayer. The impression I get is TPTB saw into the future, and one of the spirits would have gotten a lucky shot that managed to kill Buffy.

 

[Cordy_Chase]

While it would actually have been quite a bit more interesting and possibly even somewhat romantic to have seen Angel in protect mode against the soul stealing Kathy(not to mention he likely would have spotted her loss of soul a lot quicker than Giles discovered it in one of his books), a death doesn't have to be so dramatic and involved. An average human being can be killed as simply as walking down the street and catching a rouge bullet in an unfortunate, vital area from a street fight (like in LA or New York). Most deaths are this or even more simple. Nonetheless however they are still tragic and could have a large impact on a loved one.

True this show is based on fictional intense situations and thus I agree that they could have done something a little more dramatic in this case, the direction they chose was still valid. Ever seen the film 'Premonition' with Sandra Bullock? Very crazy film about a wife who wants to prevent her husbands death while going back and forth in time between before and after the occurrence. The death she is so desperate to prevent, a simple car accident. Thus you can still make an interesting, intense and emotional story out of a simple death.

 

[Xin Rong]

While it would actually have been quite a bit more interesting and possibly even somewhat romantic to have seen Angel in protect mode against the soul stealing Kathy(not to mention he likely would have spotted her loss of soul a lot quicker than Giles discovered it in one of his books), a death doesn't have to be so dramatic and involved. An average human being can be killed as simply as walking down the street and catching a rouge bullet in an unfortunate, vital area from a street fight (like in LA or New York). Most deaths are this or even more simple. Nonetheless however they are still tragic and could have a large impact on a loved one.

True this show is based on fictional intense situations and thus I agree that they could have done something a little more dramatic in this case, the direction they chose was still valid. Ever seen the film 'Premonition' with Sandra Bullock? Very crazy film about a wife who wants to prevent her husbands death while going back and forth in time between before and after the occurrence. The death she is so desperate to prevent, a simple car accident. Thus you can still make an interesting, intense and emotional story out of a simple death.

I agree, most of Doyle's visions were about simple deaths, even if they were supernatural, girl meets vampire, girl dies etc... so for me it makes sense that if he did have a vision of Buffy, it would have been a non essential event that could have resulted in her death... in my opinion that is why Cordy and the rest of the fang gang where in Pylea when Buffy actually died, trans-dimensional visions aren't viable, which explains why Cordy did not have a vision of Buffy dying, and why angel was not there. I don't know it for definite but I'd guess the Pylean storyline being parallel to the gift etc was not accidental.

 

[Cordy_Chase]

in my opinion that is why Cordy and the rest of the fang gang where in Pylea when Buffy actually died, trans-dimensional visions aren't viable, which explains why Cordy did not have a vision of Buffy dying, and why angel was not there. I don't know it for definite but I'd guess the Pylean storyline being parallel to the gift etc was not accidental.

I've been thinking about this, and having recently finished season 3 of 'Angel' I have a theory. Cordy had a vision of a alternate reality in 'Birthday', season 3, so unless it's a power growth thing like they have in Charmed, I don't see why she couldn't have had a vision from the earthly plain in Pylea. I believe she didn't see Buffy's actual death because it wasn't meant to be changed. Season 6 of BTVS makes this very clear with Buffy's difficult reintroduction to society, what she revealed to Spike and the brilliantly performed scene where Giles yelled at Willow. Her death was to stop all realities and dimensions from pouring into each other and causing an apocalypse. This was probably how the powers meant for her to die and thus why they needed the Native American death prevented. She was after all expected to protect The Key (Dawn) with her life.

What has been on my mind (and I expressed this in another thread as well) is how there was no chaos on the 'Angel' end from dimensions and realities coming together. Unless it just hadn't reached them yet.

 

[Lyri]

What has been on my mind (and I expressed this in another thread as well) is how there was no chaos on the 'Angel' end from dimensions and realities coming together. Unless it just hadn't reached them yet.

At this point, you're just going to have to stop expecting anything like that to happen. This won't be the last time where things happen in Sunnydale that should be seen/felt/experienced in LA or vice versa. It's just better to accept that each town/city is confined to its own little bubble without affecting anything outside it's limits. Otherwise, you're just going to go mad, lol.

 

[Cordy_Chase]

At this point, you're just going to have to stop expecting anything like that to happen. This won't be the last time where things happen in Sunnydale that should be seen/felt/experienced in LA or vice versa. It's just better to accept that each town/city is confined to its own little bubble without affecting anything outside it's limits. Otherwise, you're just going to go mad, lol.

Haha I wasn't expecting it, but I do tend to over analyze. XD

 

[Xin Rong]

I've been thinking about this, and having recently finished season 3 of 'Angel' I have a theory. Cordy had a vision of a alternate reality in 'Birthday', season 3, so unless it's a power growth thing like they have in Charmed, I don't see why she couldn't have had a vision from the earthly plain in Pylea. I believe she didn't see Buffy's actual death because it wasn't meant to be changed. Season 6 of BTVS makes this very clear with Buffy's difficult reintroduction to society, what she revealed to Spike and the brilliantly performed scene where Giles yelled at Willow. Her death was to stop all realities and dimensions from pouring into each other and causing an apocalypse. This was probably how the powers meant for her to die and thus why they needed the Native American death prevented. She was after all expected to protect The Key (Dawn) with her life.

What has been on my mind (and I expressed this in another thread as well) is how there was no chaos on the 'Angel' end from dimensions and realities coming together. Unless it just hadn't reached them yet.

When did she have a vision of an alternate reality, if you are talking about 'birthday' that doesn't really count, she has the vision before entering an alternate reality, and retains latent memories of it, but she does not have a vision of an alternate reality, the same event happened in both realities.

Also, if Angel had have been there to help, maybe there wouldn't have been a need for Buffy to die... maybe he could have actually killed the short demon man who threw spike from the tower, and with the fang gang, i think the chances of them stopping glory before the ritual would have been pretty good.

 

[Cordy_Chase]

When did she have a vision of an alternate reality, if you are talking about 'birthday' that doesn't really count, she has the vision before entering an alternate reality, and retains latent memories of it, but she does not have a vision of an alternate reality, the same event happened in both realities.

It was in the alternate reality that she had confronted the vision and resolved it...well she claimed it resolved when she was returned to her own reality. This makes no sense if the vision took place in both realities.

How can you even be sure it did? An alternate reality is a result of events that happened differently than in another. Such as how as a prolonged result of Cordy never being a part of Angel Investigations Wesley looses an arm (probably because Angel had been too mentally damaged by the time that occurred to have warned him, they probably had been working without the visions for some time by the time Cordy showed up). Perhaps somehow in AI Cordy's reality the young witch's father didn't leave. Thus she wouldn't attempt the spell that instead created the demon. That reality could contain an alternate of anyone else in existence not just Cordy.

Also, if Angel had have been there to help, maybe there wouldn't have been a need for Buffy to die... maybe he could have actually killed the short demon man who threw spike from the tower, and with the fang gang, i think the chances of them stopping glory before the ritual would have been pretty good.

This is true and I kind of did wish he had been.

 

[fredthe3rd]

[MENTION=12443]SoulOfAngelus[/MENTION] If I got shot by a bullet... I wouldn't be all that bothered about what colour it was! 😛

 

[white avenger]

Angel's appearance in this episode was more or less gratuitous, but then, just about every crossover except when Buffy went to LA to warn Angel about Faith and Angel coming to Sunnydale for Joyce's funeral really were (and, for that matter, a simple phone call, "Hey, Angel, Faith may be headed for your territory. Keep your head down, I'm on the way," might have been a better idea than her just showing up like that, except for it's dramatic effect)

And, for what it's worth, I always was of the opinion that the main reason that Angel and Spike were never both on Buffy's side at the same time, apocalypse, routine demon slaying, or anything in between, was that it would be like having two pit bulldogs in the same pack. They would have been as likely to fight each other as they would the real bad guys.

 

[Cordy_Chase]

[MENTION=12443]SoulOfAngelus[/MENTION] If I got shot by a bullet... I wouldn't be all that bothered about what colour it was! 😛

Apologies, I am not sure what this means or what I said that this is referring to.

 

[Xin Rong]

It was in the alternate reality that she had confronted the vision and resolved it...well she claimed it resolved when she was returned to her own reality. This makes no sense if the vision took place in both realities.

The vision took place in the normal reality, and cordy remembered it in the other one. This wasn't a complete alternative reality, it was history being rewritten, like what happened with connor, everything still happened, but people's memories changed about it... at least that was my interpretation. I don't think it was a 'wish' thing like buffy, it was a reality reshuffle like dawn and connor... so if cordy saved the girl in one she saved her in the other.