Duel of Buffy episodes #3

Angel or Amends

  • Angel

    Votes: 2 15.4%

  • Amends

    Votes: 11 84.6%
  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .
Guy said:
I like this interpretation better, actually. But I don't think it's what the episode itself is showing, even if it WAS the intent.

Guilt and suicide are BOTH themes in the episode, IMO. But even if we only look at Guilt as THE theme, it still doesn't work, because Angel DOESN'T listen to Buffy when she says that he can make amends. Buffy's monologue about making amends DOESN'T change Angel's mind - the magic snow does. Angel decides to make amends because a higher power gave him a sign that amends are possible. And again - in real life, people don't have magic snow to convince them that redemption is possible.

I don't know, maybe I just have a pet peeve with deus-ex-machinas?
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Agree with you, but that's down to Angel's character. He doesn't often listen to Buffy and is rarely interested in anything she says, it's just how his character is written. Angel would only listen to a higher power because he would expect Buffy to want to save him, she loves him, therefore he discounts what she has to say.
 
Mr. Pole said:
Yeah, it was the lawn; there was grass and everything. Right there on the front lawn where any passing vamper could take a bite outta him. It's amazing that anyone was still alive in Sunnydale by the time Buffy showed up.
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Christmas can make people suicidal, and with Xander's family it's not that surprising
 
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Priceless said:
Christmas can make people suicidal, and with Xander's family it's not that surprising
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So Willow just wanted to die along with him? As that year was the only year he and Willow didn't camp out together. They both should have been dead!
 
Priceless said:
Agree with you, but that's down to Angel's character. He doesn't often listen to Buffy and is rarely interested in anything she says, it's just how his character is written. Angel would only listen to a higher power because he would expect Buffy to want to save him, she loves him, therefore he discounts what she has to say.
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Ooh, I think the Angel fans are going to strongly disagree with you there.😀
I think that Angel DOES listen to Buffy many times, but in this case his existential crisis was simply SO strong that NO person could have convinced him to change his mind, without the magic snow.

I would say that if a character can't stop himself from committing suicide without divine intervention, then it's better for the story to let that character die. But that may be my dislike of Angel talking...
 
Guy said:
Ooh, I think the Angel fans are going to strongly disagree with you there.😀
I think that Angel DOES listen to Buffy many times, but in this case his existential crisis was SO strong that NO person could have convinced him to change his mind, without the magic snow.

I would say that if a character can't stop himself from committing suicide without divine intervention, then it's better for the story to let that character die. But that may be my dislike of Angel talking...
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The forum is for people to disagree and discuss, so I don't mind that. Plus I'm away for the week so I won't be here 🙂 Angel does listen, but certainly not all the time. But it is surprising how often people simply don't listen to Buffy, even though she's the Slayer, so it's not just Angel.

I'm glad Angel didn't kill himself. He's already died once and been bought back, and I wouldn't want to see that again. Plus I am not sure suicide befits the role Angel played, heroes do kill themselves for the bigger cause or to save someone they love, not because they are depressed about the guilt they feel. (If you believe at this point that Angel is a hero)
 
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Priceless said:
The forum is for people to disagree and discuss, so I don't mind that. Plus I'm away for the week so I won't be here 🙂 Angel does listen, but certainly not all the time. But it is surprising how often people simply don't listen to Buffy, even though she's the Slayer, so it's not just Angel.

I'm glad Angel didn't kill himself. He's already died once and been bought back, and I wouldn't want to see that again. Plus I am not sure suicide befits the role Angel played, heroes do kill themselves for the bigger cause or to save someone they love, not because they are depressed about the guilt they feel. (If you believe at this point that Angel is a hero)
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Yeah, I don't actually think that killing Angel at this point would have made sense for the story. So the writers should have either changed the entire episode, or they should have found a better reason for Angel not to kill himself in the end, IMO.
 
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