Duty or Choice

As for buying the characterization - it's fantasy. If the writers wanted to they could have made all vampires benevolent like angels. You can like it or not but demanding that they do it in a way that fits your views about the world strikes me as rather petty.

If I'm guilty of demanding that they do it in a way that fits my view, your arguments that I should accept Whedon's way because you seem to accept it also seems petty. Perhaps not to you, but it seems petty to me.

And how can I demand that Whedon re-write the show in a way that fits my view, when the series has already been written?😕


Why is the idea of Buffy being a Slayer, simply because she likes being one so hard to fathom? Or why is the idea of Buffy giving up the duties of a Slayers, due to some dislike of it so hard? Why should Buffy allow herself to be duty bound to a spell that originated with psychic rape and sexism? I have an idea. End the Slayer line permanently. Then find someone who can start a new one for people - and not simply young girls - who like the idea of being demon hunters?
 
Why is the idea of Buffy being a Slayer, simply because she likes being one so hard to fathom? Or why is the idea of Buffy giving up the duties of a Slayers, due to some dislike of it so hard? Why should Buffy allow herself to be duty bound to a spell that originated with psychic rape and sexism? I have an idea. End the Slayer line permanently. Then find someone who can start a new one for people - and not simply young girls - who like the idea of being demon hunters?

1. Because realistically the Slayer gig is not an ideal one. It has down sides and challenges and downright sucky parts that the show cannot ignore. Also, as we saw with Faith, "liking" being a slayer can turn into bloodlust and killing for the sake of killing. This worried Buffy, and intellectually she tried to stay away from it. That being said, she DID find joy in what she did (take episodes like "Dracula," various ones with Faith, etc)...just not as much, apparently, as you would have liked.

2. How could we respect someone who had the ability to protect the world, her friends, her own life from irreparable evil and CHOSE not to? She CHOSE to fight because she was ABLE to fight. Not because she was expected to.

3. Because Buffy is a bigger person than the ancient men who made the first Slayer. It was definitely a product of psychic rape and evil in itself, but regardless of HOW Buffy came to be the Slayer, it's who she is now. She cannot change what the Shadow Men did. She can only decide what to do now. And deciding to be empowered, and to empower others, is a better one IMO than saying, "waahhh, I don't wanna follow your rules, you're mean! I'm gonna let people die now."

As for starting a new line of Slayers who sign up for the gig...well, assuming that power is even possible (which I don't believe)...that's essentially WHAT THEY DID ANYWAY. As I've already said, Buffy extended a CHOICE to all the Slayers in the world. And non-slayers are, of course, always able to fight against evil in their own ways (Giles, Willow, Xander, Anya, Oz, Andrew, Tara, Riley + the whole Initiative, Jonathan, Dawn, Wesley, Cordelia, Fred, Gunn, should I go on). PEOPLE fighting against evil is always an option. Oh, and the demons? They're just a metaphor.
 
M
Ms.Trick
Me like your post very much!
1. Because realistically the Slayer gig is not an ideal one. It has down sides and challenges and downright sucky parts that the show cannot ignore. Also, as we saw with Faith, "liking" being a slayer can turn into bloodlust and killing for the sake of killing. This worried Buffy, and intellectually she tried to stay away from it. That being said, she DID find joy in what she did (take episodes like "Dracula," various ones with Faith, etc)...just not as much, apparently, as you would have liked.

2. How could we respect someone who had the ability to protect the world, her friends, her own life from irreparable evil and CHOSE not to? She CHOSE to fight because she was ABLE to fight. Not because she was expected to.

3. Because Buffy is a bigger person than the ancient men who made the first Slayer. It was definitely a product of psychic rape and evil in itself, but regardless of HOW Buffy came to be the Slayer, it's who she is now. She cannot change what the Shadow Men did. She can only decide what to do now. And deciding to be empowered, and to empower others, is a better one IMO than saying, "waahhh, I don't wanna follow your rules, you're mean! I'm gonna let people die now."

As for starting a new line of Slayers who sign up for the gig...well, assuming that power is even possible (which I don't believe)...that's essentially WHAT THEY DID ANYWAY. As I've already said, Buffy extended a CHOICE to all the Slayers in the world. And non-slayers are, of course, always able to fight against evil in their own ways (Giles, Willow, Xander, Anya, Oz, Andrew, Tara, Riley + the whole Initiative, Jonathan, Dawn, Wesley, Cordelia, Fred, Gunn, should I go on). PEOPLE fighting against evil is always an option. Oh, and the demons? They're just a metaphor.



I'm sorry, but I don't buy this. I really don't. I get the impression that fans want to view Buffy as some kind of martyr to the cause of killing demons for the sake of humanity. Screw that. That doesn't make any sense? Why not find someone to create a spell to make Slayers out of those who want to be one? Why do you demand that Buffy martyr herself in such a dangerous position? Do you demand that certain people should automatically become cops? Or do you think that individuals should have the choice to become one?

Buffy didn't extend a choice to all of the Slayers in the world . . . only to those living inside her house in Sunnydale. Once THEY made the choice to become Slayers, Willow's spell made Slayers out of all of the Potentials all over the world. If Buffy had given those girls the choice to assume Slayer duties, well I have no problems with that. But if one doesn't want to assume the duties of a Slayer (and that includes Buffy), then I believe that one shouldn't.

Do fans of science-fiction and fantasy have some fetish or desire for vigilante/saviors?


How could we respect someone who had the ability to protect the world, her friends, her own life from irreparable evil and CHOSE not to?

I don't care. I really don't care. I feel that the whole "with great power comes great responsibility argument is a load of crap. If that person never made the choice to acquire such power, then I don't believe he or she should waste their lives in such a dangerous profession . . . unless they decided that in their hearts, they really WANTED TO.
 
I have been watching both "BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER" and "CHARMED" for many years, now. In many ways, I found "BUFFY" much superior to "CHARMED". Both the series' acting and writing was much superior to the latter. Even better, the series' characters "“ especially Buffy Summers "“ managed to develop a more ambiguous outlook on morality over the years, in compare to the older Halliwell sisters. But if there is one major flaw that "BUFFY" shared with "CHARMED" - at least in my eyes "“ is this ridiculous viewpoint that the series' main heroine was duty bound to protect the public from the supernatural evil, due to her special powers.

How did Buffy Summers become a vampire (and demon) slayer? Apparently, she had been born with the supernatural strength of a Slayer, due to a spell cast by three African shamans. These three men decided they needed a hero/heroine - a weapon - that would slay vampires and other demons for them and their community. And to ensure control over this weapon, they picked a young female and cast a spell upon her, infusing her with a demonic essence. In other words, the Slayer line was nothing more than a method of coercion to force young girls and woman to fight supernatural evil for them . . . and later, the Watcher's Council. These men also figured that with the Slayers being young and female would guarantee that they will always have control of the Slayer line.

Many would point out that Buffy has learned to attain some sense of individuality and freedom from her previous authority figures. They would point out Buffy's estrangement from the Watcher's Council in mid-Season 3 and her rejection of Rupert Giles as her personal Watcher in late Season 7 as examples. Granted, these fans would have a point. But I can also think of one or two examples of how Buffy had allowed her belief that she had no choice but to be the Slayer, rule her life.

A prime example occurred in the Season 3 episode, "Choices", when she had received a notice of acceptance from Northwestern University in the Chicago area. Buffy and her friends came to the conclusion that she had no choice, but to turn down the offer and continue her education in Sunnydale. Why? As the Slayer, she had to remain in Sunnydale in order to protect its citizens from the effects of the Hellmouth. Joss Whedon might be a first-class television writer and producer, but I found his reasoning for forcing Buffy to reject the Northwestern offer and remain in Sunnydale as one of the biggest pile of horseshit I have ever come across in television. This explanation made no sense to me. Of course Buffy had a choice. There was no rule that she had to remain in Sunnydale to continue her Slayer duties. Demons and vampires did not exist only in Sunnydale. Hell, Buffy had become a Slayer in another city - namely Los Angeles. Fans might point out the numerous apocalypses that have sprung up over the years in Sunnydale. Again, this struck me as another example of contrived writing on Whedon's part. Were the viewers really expected to believe that apocalypses only appeared in Sunnydale, California? Especially since the series had established there were Hellmouths in other locations around the world "“ including Cleveland, Ohio? I think that the only reason Buffy had decided to remain a Slayer in Sunnydale was her belief that she had no choice but to stay, due to her Slayer powers. She wasn't really making choices. She was allowing her belief that she had no choice but to remain, guide her decisions. And to me, it seems that her reasoning for remaining a Slayer is tainted by her view of "duty". It comes off as cold to me.

In the Season 7 finale, Buffy came up with a scheme that she believed would help defeat the efforts of the First Evil. She convinced Willow to cast a spell "“ using a magical Slayer Scythe that she had managed to acquire in a previous episode "“ to change the Slayer line originally set by the African shamans. Instead of one Slayer manifesting one at a time, the spell allowed all of the Potentials "“ adolescent girls and young women within the Slayer line "“ to become Slayers at the same time. Why did Buffy simply allow Willow to use the scythe to end the Slayer line once and for all? Buffy and Willow could have put an end to a system that originated with psychic rape and sexism. And all of those young females would have been spared the violent and potentially short life of a Slayer. Because she had set this plan in motion, Buffy became the global leader of the Slayers. Despite her dislike of being a Slayer, she remained trapped in this lifestyle.

Personally, I believe that Buffy was an idiot for remaining in a profession that she obviously disliked. Second, I believe that she was a bigger idiot for allowing Merrick and later, Giles, to talk her into assuming Slayer duties in the first place. If she did not want to become a Slayer, she should have refrained from accepting the role. Three, even when she detached herself from the Watchers Council, she continued acting as Slayer, because she rather stupidly believed that she had no choice in the matter. I found it amazing that although no longer in her life, the Watchers Council continued to exert a strong influence over her.

The idea of a person with super or magical abilities acting as the protector/savior of the public seemed to have its origins in comic book superheroes. As much as I find these stories entertaining, I realize that I am fast developing a deep contempt for them. It is one thing to choose to become involved in a lifestyle that turns you into some kind of cop with special powers. It is another to allow someone to coerce you into that situation, because you have special powers. The idea that someone is duty-bound to act like some supernatural cop just because he or she possesses special powers strikes me as RIDICULOUS. Even worse, it seems like coercing someone into a dangerous lifestyle or profession against his or her will. For me, it compatible with the military draft. How can anyone in their right mind support such an idea?

As for Buffy, will she spend the rest of her life swallowing the belief that she has no choice but to continue her "duties" as a Slayer? Will she come to enjoy being a Slayer? Or will her story end with her finally having the guts to act upon her dislike of Slayer duties and try to make a life for herself? I guess only Joss Whedon knows the answer to that question.


I think at the beginning, it was all about duty, but it progressively became Buffy's choice.

I see Becoming, Anne, Helpless and Choices as important points of Buffy's change of mind.

In Becoming, it's the peak of the duty, the burden. Buffy had to sacrifice all her life to the Slayering. She'd got suspended at school, had her friends injured, had a strong fight with her mum, and on top of that, she had to kill Angel. I think it's pretty obvious she wouldn't have chosen any of those, it just happened to her because she was the Slayer. She tried to run away from this live.

Which brings us to Anne. She ran away and lives a truly miserable life, but demon-free. Til the day Lily comes to her. Bummer, evil is everywhere! No matter how far you run, evil will always be there, surround you. And you, Buffy, have the strength to stop it. So, what will you chose? Living your life blind from evil, or facing it?
In the end, she's given the choice to become no one and to be tamed by evil. But she stands up. I think in that episode, she really realize she can't flee from evil. I don't think she really embraces her power yet, but she realizes that no matter where she goes, she'll always have to fight. Her help will always be needed.
So we're still in the duty part.

Then, in Helpless, Buffy's power is taken away from her. She becomes a normal girl, nothing more. And she hates it. She feels helpless (hence the titel), vulnerable. She has to face what it is like to be a mere girl. And she can't put up with it. She realizes that her Slayer power is a gift and a burden. It's a burden because it is the consequence of male domination. But it is a gift because it makes her strong.
It's a burden as long as she slays for the Council, because she's still dominated. And what the Council put her through was harsh, dangerous, archaic, and completely crazy.
She starts rebelling against the Council, but not quite completely, but I think at that point, she starts embracing her Slayerness.

Finally, in Choices, she chooses to stay in Sunnydale because that's where the Hellmouth is. She could have gone to the other college, where she would have had to face demons as well. But she choosed to stay in Sunnydale. I don't think she could have leave her mum and friends in Sunnydale, exposed to danger, while she had the power to protect them. She stayed and choosed that life. At that point, I don't think she gives a crap about duty, about what the Council expects from her. She stays because she wants to. She knows she can protect people, and she wants to. I don't think it's possible for her to know she has the power to help people and not using it. Doing so, she helps people who don't have the same "luck" as she have to be powerful. She's been helpless once, she knows how hard it is and if she has the power to prevent people from being helpless like she was, she will use it of course. It's not about duty, it's about knowing what it's like to be a victim and understanding how lucky she is to be able to 100% take care of herself.
She decides to offer people what they don't have, that thing she has: power.

As for the Scythe-thing, I always have loved this decision. I think she gave the opportunity to as much girls as possible to be strong. And I don't think she'll ever force any new Slayer to join her. She broke up her engagement to the Council because of that, she won't do the same as them. Thanks to Buffy, you don't have to be the chosen one to be strong. It let the chance to more girls to be able to defend themselves and to never be helpless ever again. Of course, it is possible that a lot of new-Slayers will have the same difficulties to embrace that power, but I really think Buffy did those girls some good: they don't have to fight to obey, they fight if they want to and experience what it is like to be strong.

tl;dr: GO BUFFY!
 
S
StarSlayer
Great post!
Personally, I believe that Buffy was an idiot for remaining in a profession that she obviously disliked. Second, I believe that she was a bigger idiot for allowing Merrick and later, Giles, to talk her into assuming Slayer duties in the first place. If she did not want to become a Slayer, she should have refrained from accepting the role.

Well remember in Prophecy Girl, Buffy does just that. She says, "Giles, I'm 16 years old. I don't want to die." And she quits. But she comes back but she realizes she does have a choice. She can choose to quit or to fight. She weighed the consequences though: Choose to quit and the whole world gets taken over by the Master or choose to accept the slayer part of her and fight and die. She absolutely had a choice. And it sucks, because if she doesn't choose to be the slayer, really no one else could have, but she chose to fight and accept that she had be given this power, unfair or not. And I think the series always follows through with this. There is always a choice. Always. It may be a crappy choice, and you may not like either option, but it's always there.

And like Whistler says, "The big stuff is gonna happen, you can't change that, what matters is what you do after."
 
I'm sorry, but I don't buy this. I really don't. I get the impression that fans want to view Buffy as some kind of martyr to the cause of killing demons for the sake of humanity. Screw that. That doesn't make any sense? Why not find someone to create a spell to make Slayers out of those who want to be one? Why do you demand that Buffy martyr herself in such a dangerous position? Do you demand that certain people should automatically become cops? Or do you think that individuals should have the choice to become one?
I highly doubt they could have found a way to rewire the most ancient spell they knew of, the spell that made Slayers. If that were possible, I have a feeling that someone (the Watchers Council, for starters) would have discovered it and used it already. Even if nobody had ever looked, I still doubt it would have been possible. You're talking about extremely old, extremely powerful and strong magic that could not be tampered with even if the Slayer turned out to be a human serial killer or a vegetable. If they had found a way for people to simply sign up and become a Slayer, that would have changed everything we'd known about the Slayer line and would have felt very contrived.

I don't demand that Buffy martyr herself. The difference here is that I see that Buffy makes choices to be a Slayer. I see choice and fulfillment where you apparently see duty and despair.

Buffy didn't extend a choice to all of the Slayers in the world . . . only to those living inside her house in Sunnydale. Once THEY made the choice to become Slayers, Willow's spell made Slayers out of all of the Potentials all over the world. If Buffy had given those girls the choice to assume Slayer duties, well I have no problems with that. But if one doesn't want to assume the duties of a Slayer (and that includes Buffy), then I believe that one shouldn't.
I don't think you understand what activating the scythe actually did. One of your issues with the Slayer power is that each Slayer felt obligated to BE a Slayer...which was because they were the only one. No one else could fight demons and evil the way they could, and so of course there was pressure put on them to be a Slayer, even if maybe they didn't want to be one.

By activating ALL the Slayers, Buffy gave these Slayers a CHOICE. They didn't need to act on their new responsibilities at all. There were plenty of other slayers in the world to fight evil. They could sign up for the gig, or they could form gangs and rob banks, or they could ignore all the responsibility and simply have the benefit of being able to open any jar they encounter. Buffy didn't go around to every activated Slayer and say, "JOIN OUR CAUSE, DO IT NOW, YOU HAVE TO."

Activating one Slayer at a time meant pressure, sole responsibility and "destiny"...activating ALL the Slayers extended choice.

Your example about people becoming cops is cohesive with my point, actually. Any able-bodied person (here: represented as people with the Slayer power) can become cops (or Slayers). None of them HAVE to, none of them even have to feel like they have to; they can choose (just like the new Slayers).

I don't care. I really don't care. I feel that the whole "with great power comes great responsibility argument is a load of crap. If that person never made the choice to acquire such power, then I don't believe he or she should waste their lives in such a dangerous profession . . . unless they decided that in their hearts, they really WANTED TO.
And I believe that in her heart, Buffy wanted to.

People are pelted with things they didn't choose every single day. That's life. We deal and adapt. That's also life.
 
Off the top of my head..

- Prophecy Girl. While it probably can't be said that Buffy enjoyed herself in this episode, there's a distinct choice made: to face the Master, in order to protect her friends. She WANTED to fight him even if it meant her death. And there's definitely a certain "hell yes, I'm gonna do the damn thing" vibe when she's revived and goes to the school to kill him for real.
- Helpless. For the first time since becoming a Slayer, Buffy is faced with the possibility that her powers might be lost, which completely distresses her. She feels that being a Slayer made her into a better person (from a Cordelia-type into who she is now) and doesn't WANT to lose that. Even though the gradual going-away of her powers would make things easy, it's not what she wants at all, and is not what she would choose.
- Bad Girls. Through Faith's guidance, Buffy is able to admit that slaying can be FUN. She shows several times throughout this episode (and previous ones involving Faith) that she finds enjoyment in the actual slaying.
- The Prom. Buffy is finally recognized by her classmates for what she's done for them, is named Class Protector, and is really, really pleased by this.
- The Freshman. Buffy is in a funk, and slaying pulls her out of it.
- Buffy vs. Dracula. In the beginning of this episode, Buffy is restless and unable to sleep. She goes out, slays, and is relaxed enough to finally rest. This shows she takes pleasure in slaying, it releases something in her, it's therepeutic.
- Normal Again. Again, Buffy chooses the seemingly more difficult option - to be a Slayer - rather than the "comfy alternative."

Of course, this doesn't even begin to list every example of Buffy choosing to, wanting to, or taking pleasure in being the Slayer.

There are also all the little moments she clearly enjoys: saving her friends, mom, sister, boyfriends..being able to be independent and strong..the rush that slaying gives her..the copious amounts of energetic sex she can have due to her strength...etc etc etc.
 
Hmmm reading through this thread I have to agree with a lot of what everyone else said bar LadyLavinia. No matter how much you spin this, Buffy's choice as a Slayer at the end of the day her choice. At first she may have seen it as a duty but when you put factors of significant episodes like Prophecy Girl, Becoming, Anne, Helpless, Choices and Chosen it really does come to choice. Buffy may have whined about being a Slayer but deep down I think she liked it. She embraced it a lot more in Season 7 when training the potentials. Buffy may not have wanted the potentials to live the life she had led, but in the end she would have rather given them a choice to share her power and how they used it in their life.

I saw no contract to this power and that all the potentials had to join Buffy and fight evil. Buffy and Willow would have never gone down that root. Actually now I think about the duty was to protect this ancient power, of course not everyone is going to abide by it but its moral. You see that in season 8, the majority of new Slayers choose to fight with Buffy and the minority decide to use them for their own personal gain. Its a similar message in Charmed.

I was a big of Charmed but the message I felt was slightly different. In Buffy using your power didn't always have a negative personal gain. Charmed did. The Halliwell sisters had to use their powers for the greater good to protect the world. If the sisters used their powers for their own good it would back fire. That was more of a duty than a choice, I think if it was a choice their powers would have been used in many different ways on the show. This was something that was never explored much on Buffy apart from when Willow had her will done in season 4 for her own personal gain. I think the words duty and choice can be interpreted in different ways on different shows. Its our outlook on the world and our diversity that can make it mean different things. Thats just how it is and we have to accept and face value rather than trying to prove a point and make others change their mind.
 
Hmmm reading through this thread I have to agree with a lot of what everyone else said bar LadyLavinia. No matter how much you spin this, Buffy's choice as a Slayer at the end of the day her choice. At first she may have seen it as a duty but when you put factors of significant episodes like Prophecy Girl, Becoming, Anne, Helpless, Choices and Chosen it really does come to choice. Buffy may have whined about being a Slayer but deep down I think she liked it. She embraced it a lot more in Season 7 when training the potentials. Buffy may not have wanted the potentials to live the life she had led, but in the end she would have rather given them a choice to share her power and how they used it in their life.


Exactly how did Buffy make that choice? Through genuine free will . . . or via coercion and some misguided belief that she had no choice but to assume the duties of a Slayer?

Now, if Buffy genuinely enjoyed being a Slayer, I'm with that. But I never got the impression that she did. What I had sensed was that she made the choice to become a Slayer through coercion from Merrick and Giles, some sense of guilt that she has to save others because she possessed certain powers or that she had no choice but to be a Slayer. If I'm supposed to find that admirable, I don't. Buffy is not acting from the heart, but some cold-blooded belief that she has no choice but to spend most of her nights "patrolling" for demons and vampires to kill . . . all because she had acquired some abilities through an accident of birth. I have no respect for people like that.
 
Exactly how did Buffy make that choice? Through genuine free will . . . or via coercion and some misguided belief that she had no choice but to assume the duties of a Slayer?

Now, if Buffy genuinely enjoyed being a Slayer, I'm with that. But I never got the impression that she did. What I had sensed was that she made the choice to become a Slayer through coercion from Merrick and Giles, some sense of guilt that she has to save others because she possessed certain powers or that she had no choice but to be a Slayer. If I'm supposed to find that admirable, I don't. Buffy is not acting from the heart, but some cold-blooded belief that she has no choice but to spend most of her nights "patrolling" for demons and vampires to kill . . . all because she had acquired some abilities through an accident of birth. I have no respect for people like that.

Considering Buffy subverted such authority, I'd say the impetus came more or less from her. As I said in the morality thread, it's her connection to humanity that drives her to fight as the slayer. She actually says to Angel that she's seen what goes bump in the night.

I suppose if we become more philosophical, it depends what we mean by choice. In terms of free will, well yes, Buffy is free to do what she likes. Faith for example chose not the take being a Slayer seriously, but the emotional consequences of that for Buffy are too severe. Maybe that's part of who she is and if we extend this idea further then maybe she hasn't got a choice, if of course we live in a deterministic universe, but then Buffy being admirable or not becomes moot.

The problem is why do we judge Buffy more than any other activist who wants to help people? Like Angel and Spike, her power has dark origins and in her case, it has roots in subjugation but her choice, based upon her values to fight evil, is what defines her rather than whether or not she was born with her abilities.

Judging from the series, Buffy's drive to be the Slayer is anything but 'cold-blooded' it's born from her capacity to care rather than the guilt of what might happen if she didn't continue fighting.
 
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