Eliza Introduces Bernie Sanders

Yeah - I'll vote Hilary if I have to - mainly because the top 3 Repubs all agree that all mosques should be closed and all Muslims treated as if they are potential terrorists. Those guys are lunatics, IMO.

I must be getting really old, because I can actually remember when the Presidential Election wasn't just trying to pick the best of two bad choices.

Neither Hillary nor Trump would get my vote if there were someone sane running.
 
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I still didn't read the part when they were going to shut down all mosques and start rounding up the muslims, I only saw that mosques (and other places) that traded on this sort of hatred would be stopped from being able to do that very thing.
I don't know why any person would object to that.

It's a question of rights - American rights are decided by legal precedent.

We already have allowed citizens to be taken into custody without charges, held for years without even seeing a lawyer, with no outside contact including family. I don't want that right expanded to monitoring the places any group inhabits for enjoyment or religious practice because once it happens to one group it is legal precedent. We are getting to close to a place where the idea is not that a person is innocent until proven guilty but that there is no smoke without fire.

A Christian man went into a planned parenthood clinic and gunned down several people, killing 3. He did it for Jesus, because Jesus told him to protect the babies. Is that terrorism? One religious group is being singled out. The real issue is that those who want to talk are being convinced by our own rhetoric that it is not safe to do so.
 
Sadly the article ignores the fact that, as a percentage, muslim terrorists as a group/idiology, commit more acts of terror than any one other group. Yeah, you'll get the odd left-wing/right-wing nut, but none of these nuts will work together towards the same single stated goal- their religion. So its a false comparison. *shrug*

Yes, Trump is the worst - I just don't see Rubio as much better.

As for ISIS etc - 90% of their victims are Muslim. They have a pretty massive clusterfluck civil war going. They spend more time killing each other than anyone else. Shia vs Sunni. Iraq vs Iran vs Syria vs Saudi Arabia - and do I need to go on? That's why treating all Muslims as possible or probable terrorists is a dumb move. We want that 90% to get help and prevent attacks. The more we demonize all Muslims, the less non-radical Muslims are willing to trust.

BTW - if you are looking world wide - look at Kashmir - Hindu vs Muslim, Buddhist vs Muslim, Hindu vs Buddhist - and then factor in southeast Asia where the largest Muslim population exists. We are talking the second largest religion in the world and the fastest growing one. So if we decide to treat this as a monolith then we are biting off a pretty huge chunk.
 
Yes, Trump is the worst
I'm not sure that he is. At least you know what you're getting with Trump. He might as well have ***hole tattooed on his forehead. So if you vote for him you're going to get the ***hole you're voting for. He is at least not afraid to criticise Saudi Arabia and TPP. The others are backed by banks, lobbying groups and other shady interests. They're in favour of signing over national sovereignty to corporations and that probably makes them more dangerous.
 
I'm not sure that he is. At least you know what you're getting with Trump. He might as well have ***hole tattooed on his forehead. So if you vote for him you're going to get the ***hole you're voting for. He is at least not afraid to criticise Saudi Arabia and TPP. The others are backed by banks, lobbying groups and other shady interests. They're in favour of signing over national sovereignty to corporations and that probably makes them more dangerous.

Yeah - great choices. Trump is a corporation with more corporate contacts than anyone - and there's already talk of him being banned from several countries for hate speech - which would really be a diplomatic nightmare. The man said he could commit a murder in Times Square and no one would stop supporting him.

We need a puking emoji!
 
We already have allowed citizens to be taken into custody without charges, held for years without even seeing a lawyer, with no outside contact including family. I don't want that right expanded to monitoring the places any group inhabits for enjoyment or religious practice because once it happens to one group it is legal precedent. We are getting to close to a place where the idea is not that a person is innocent until proven guilty but that there is no smoke without fire.

Urgh, the Patriot Act does make me mad, and I thought Obama would've done something about it (he could've but didn't), I thought he would've done something about Gitmo (he could've but didn't).

Still, I see surviellence and working with the Muslim communities, which is what our intelligence services do in the UK.

It's also what our intelligence services did with the IRA in Northern Ireland. You realize the truth that almost all the IRA members were Catholics, but that didn't mean that all Catholics are IRA (quite the opposite Catholics were the main victims of the IRA). But it does mean you knows where to engage with the community, look for help, find out the why and the who.
By saying 'where do we find IRA members, they could be anyone and anywhere' then those who are supposed to protect us are not doing their best job. Why? becaused they don't want to appear unfair?
It's a tough choice but in the end its hurt feelings (not imprisonment or deportation) vs. not getting to the truth fast enough and maybe something bad happens.

A Christian man went into a planned parenthood clinic and gunned down several people, killing 3. He did it for Jesus, because Jesus told him to protect the babies. Is that terrorism?

Absolutely, if the goal is to strike terror.
And what's more if say, three other guys from that man's church start killing for Jesus then start looking at the church and its teachings. Hard.

Same if its a Jewish temple, same if its a Mosque.

One religious group is being singled out.

Recognising and pointing out a common trend in violence is simply truth-telling. There is a difference between seeing the facts as they are and refusing to see any sort of connection because you might be accused of bullying.

To take your example; if these were a large group of well-funded, inter-continental right-wing christians shooting and planting bombs would there really be the same reluctance to admit that, because they are white?

We are talking the second largest religion in the world and the fastest growing one. So if we decide to treat this as a monolith then we are biting off a pretty huge chunk.

I agree, which is why motivations must be understood. We can't stick our heads in the sand about the causes of violence. We can only do that by engaging with Muslim groups, not by ignoring that fact that Islam- an extreme, distorted form of it to be sure- is a factor in many terrorist attacks.
 
Samuel Reyes
Samuel Reyes
Sorry, Trump robbed me of my innocence. But I'm still the Spirit Bunny. :P
Absolutely, if the goal is to strike terror.
And what's more if say, three other guys from that man's church start killing for Jesus then start looking at the church and its teachings. Hard.

To take your example; if these were a large group of well-funded, inter-continental right-wing christians shooting and planting bombs would there really be the same reluctance to admit that, because they are white?

Sadly this is the case - and I would call them pseudo Xtians. look at McVeigh - he blew up the federal building in OK - largest massacre in US history before 9/11. There have been repeated attacks - a recent one in a black church, a huge amount of arson not reported in the media. The problem is merely public relations - these people are dangerous and they are terrorists.

I completely agree on the rest.
 
Well, sure equality is a myth no one believes in, if you born rich chances are you'll remain rich with much better chance getting top education...

But don't they in the US try to close the gaps of edu. unequality i dunno, just for practical purposes? As in getting more top brains to the market?
Not in the 'useless' humanities & social studies but for example what are the chances that a kid from some minority will get fished out for his math skills and can participate in advanced learning programs gratis?
Or they just rely on getting those from aboard cheap without investing in edu at home?
 
Bluebird
Bluebird
I agree, and it's a shame. The poor kid next door, if given the opportunity to learn, could end up saving your life one day, instead of
bespangeled
bespangeled
Yes - and it's not about race, it's about economic class. There are poverty stricken folk across the board.
I'd like to point out something from a personal perspective of free education and healthcare. Unlike England, Scotland has both. Right now, I could go to part time hours and study for a degree to get a job I'm more interested in (maybe improve my bad grammar while I'm at it) and then if I happened to need surgery, like most people do at some point in their life - illness can strike any of us - then I would have zero worries about debt or having to fight with an insurance company over medical bills. From both studying, and requiring surgery/drugs, I would have zero debt. £0.00. I prefer it the Scottish way, since education and health affect almost every single one of us. Plus, if it wasn't for free healthcare my dad would be dead, so there's that. That bit is cool. 😉
 
Speaking of Buffy in relation to Donald Trump...

Donald Trump, Realism, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Dan Drezner thinks Donald Trump is a realist and that therefore academic realists should endorse him for President of the United States. There are only two problems with this. First, Donald Trump is not realist. Second, no one with a shred of decency or good sense should endorse Trump, regardless how closely one’s foreign policy foundations resemble his latest ravings.

Drezner thinks Trump is a realist because he has at times articulated policies that accord with realist principles, as Drezner documents, largely based on the claims of Trump's team to Josh Rogin.. This would indeed be huge, but calling him a realist implies more than occasional support for policies consistent with realist principles. It implies that his world view consistently accords with those principles. So academic realists can, I suppose, cheer Trump’s disinterest in exporting democracy. But they can hardly be thrilled with his proposal to "bomb the shit" out of ISIL-controlled fields in Iraq and Syria and then surround them with a “ring” of American troops.

Indeed, inconsistency is the real Trump doctrine, not realism. Many candidates struggle to explain away the apparent hypocrisy in, say, claiming to be careful in committing American lives, yet simultaneously advocating wild, testosterone-fuelled military schemes to defeat America’s enemies. But Trump embraces the idea that moral purity, and even the dictates of logic, end at the nation’s shores. Regardless of the contradictions, he will voice unapologetic pride in America and his foreign policy— then just as forcefully accuse China of stealing American jobs, while outsourcing his own clothing line to that country.

Does this celebration of hypocrisy make Trump a realist? Maybe, but in this view, realism can be most anything as it can absorb any sort of inconsistency. Drezner verifies this in his subsequent retort to his (realist) critics when he manages to associate realism with both the very internationally-oriented foreign policy of Richard Nixon and nativism and even isolationism.

Drezner’s impressive demonstration of realism’s flexibility shows that the question of whether Trump is a realist is just yet another iteration in the perennial academic debate about what realism really is. This debate has become—after many, many decades—spectacularly boring and you should pay no attention to it even if you are an academic realist. Honestly, a marathon session watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer would give you greater insight into international relations than plunging into that tired dispute.

And regardless of what realism is, the more important point is that Trump’s foreign policy beliefs alone don’t and shouldn’t dictate how academic realists feel about him. They might quite reasonably feel that even if the philosophical foundations of his foreign policy foundations are solid, the fact that he is a racist, megalomaniacal neophyte with the emotional maturity of a 13-year-old girl might nonetheless disqualify him from the presidency. Nobody, even the much-maligned academic realists, have to endorse someone just because he shares their foreign policy priorities. Now back to Buffy.
 
thetopher
thetopher
Man, I thought you were our spirit-bunny! You went all political on us. :P
bespangeled
bespangeled
Yes - everything I need to know I learned from Buffy - including that Trump is a female Glorificus
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