"Empty Places" Revisited

[white avenger]

Here's the situation: You're Buffy, Caleb and his Bringers have just devastated the Potentials and destroyed Xander's eye. You have to come up with a strategy for going back to the vineyard. We know what Buffy did, and it was a short term disaster. How would your plan differ from what happened on the show?

 

[ukkid09]

I would do the plan like Buffy because she the commander the boss soo we should listen to her,if the scoobies agreed with Buffy ,Faith wornt go boom...

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I would have broken out the Judgelauncher™ and used that on Caleb and let the Bringers pick up the pieces.. wouldnt have been that difficult to take the vineyard then..

 

[ukkid09]

^^ Excellent plan , and let Buffy wacth with a cuppaaaa LMAO...😉!

 

[sosa lola]

I would do the plan like Buffy because she the commander the boss soo we should listen to her,if the scoobies agreed with Buffy ,Faith wornt go boom...

Or... if the Scoobies listened to Buffy, Faith would be dead. 🙂 The First and Caleb were expecting them to come back, so Buffy would've lost more of her army, and she may not have been able to get the scythe marching like that.

I think I would've tried to fool the First by taking my troop somewhere else and have someone like Xander or Dawn go to the vineyard and get the scythe. The First and Caleb would never see that, they won't be paying any attention to the "useless, normal ones".

 

[white avenger]

All that we know about Buffy's plan to return to the vineyard was that she DID plan to return. She was, in her own words, willing to discuss strategy. What if Buffy, Spike, and Faith had gone in alone and attacked Caleb together? Giles, Wood, or both, could have started a diversion near the vineyard in order to draw out the Bringers, leaving the main strike force, Buffy, Spike, and Riley, free to attack the vineyard itself, where Caleb and the remainder of the Bringers were. One, say Faith, could hold off or distract the Bringers while Spike and Buffy launched a coordinated attack on Caleb, never giving him to do any real damage to either, because as soon as he tried to fight one, the other would hit him from behind, while they chopped him to pieces with swords or axes.

 

[ukkid09]

I love the fight scene , Matrix style lol,I think Buffy planned this very Vividly and excellently.So i dont understand why they didnt listen to her.She was right along . And faith go boom ...🙂!

 

[sosa lola]

ubi4soft agrees: only buffy could pulled out the scythe (king arthur style)

Was that stated in the show?

All that we know about Buffy's plan to return to the vineyard was that she DID plan to return. She was, in her own words, willing to discuss strategy.

I think what went wrong is Buffy discussing this with everybody. She should have had this talk with Xander, Willow, Giles, Dawn, Wood, and Faith first. Rational, "we're a team" talk, not an "I'm god, bow before me" tone which is what got others upset with her in the first place.

I think Buffy planned this very Vividly and excellently.So i dont understand why they didnt listen to her.She was right along .

What was her plan? She was right that Caleb was hiding something, but that doesn't mean marching into death was the right plan. I understand why no one agreed with her. They had no proof that Caleb was hiding something and they'd just lost a battle. It's understandable why they reacted badly to going back there.

 

[ubi4soft]

only buffy could pulled out the scythe (king arthur style)
Was that stated in the show?

No but it was heavily implied when guardian lady talk to Buffy. The scythe was planted in the rock by the guardians, hidden even by the watchers, for the use of Buffy in that specific battle.

Possible also Faith could pull it out (she sensed some vibration from it, Willow didn't). Also I understand that it appeared first in the Fray comics

 

[ukkid09]

^^ It was applied and stated like (King Arthur style)
It quoted “GILES
(inspecting the weapon) In addition to being ancient, it's clearly mystical.
BUFFY
Yeah, I figured that one out when I King Arthured it out of the stone.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Yes, the implication was that only the chosen one could pull it out of the stone. That's why Caleb was so freaked out about Buffy finding out it's location. The Taunter himself was probobly planning on having Caleb have her pull it out, and then killing her and using it in the final battle. Guess that didn't work out.

And I agree; I think the reference to King Arthur sufficiently suggests that. (By the way, "King Arthured" is so totally not a verb! lol God, I love Buffy.)

 

[ukkid09]

What was her plan? She was right that Caleb was hiding something, but that doesn't mean marching into death was the right plan. I understand why no one agreed with her. They had no proof that Caleb was hiding something and they'd just lost a battle. It's understandable why they reacted badly to going back there.

If Buffy had the couragement and the same attitude, and trust from her closest friends she probably end up victorious ,but anyhow Buffy went alone and was right along so go Buffy , you mishandled Caleb and outsmarted him well done Buffy. BUFFY "I don't understand. Seven years I've kept us safe by doing this, exactly this, making the hard decisions. Suddenly you're all acting like you ;(don't trust me." That's what I don't get she has the most experiences of being the slayer and being a leader from day one ,she did a quick response of doing a plan to out smart Glory to win back Dawn , and then she sacrifice her life to save the world , so bascailly I would trust her with my life. But their didn't .
But i agree we never know what would happen ...

 

[Skanky Vamp]

That's what I don't get she has the most experiences of being the slayer and being a leader from day one

Though the slayer was not SUPPOSED to be a leader, but a weapon.. thats why she always suffered when it came to leadership ability.

 

[ukkid09]

^^Being a leader come responsibility and consequences every leader has that responsibility. Buffy a powerful weapon that’s why she suits being a leader, she has the most experience being a slayer. That’s why I didn’t get why every body didn’t trust her, and Buffy saved the world a lot, she always executes the plan. I think Buffy is leader material because she still a leader in season 8 , now she got a army to command.So now Basically she is a leader lol ..😉!

 

[Wesley]

I would have done what everyone else had done. I did NOT like Buffy at all in the latter parts of season 7. She snubbed everyone she ever knew and trusted and decided to act on her own when the entire concept of WHY Buffy was so different from every other slayer ever was that she relied on her friends.


S1 - Xander gives her mouth to mouth or she dies.
S2 - Willow re-ensouls Angel.
S3 - Cordelia and Angel lead the students, Giles and Xander nuke the Mayor.
S4 - Willow, Xander, and Giles all give her their power to defeat ADAM.
S5 - Willow, Spike, Anya, Giles, Xander, Tara all charge Glory to help her.
S6 - Buffy fails, Xander succeeds.

So all of a sudden in Season 7 now Buffy is the ONLY one capable of making the 'tough decisions'? I call serious foul on that one. She was in over her head, she was angry at herself for being taken in by the First Evil, she was acting out of emotion.

I'm not saying she should have taken a vote, but she has at her disposal, three (or more) people who are honest to God heroes. Xander, Willow and Giles are just as much apart of this as she was and for her to not consult them or even to ask their opinion was a sign of her immense recklessness and emotionality.

She was in the wrong, I firmly believe that. Not only that but Xander, the one most loyal person ever in her entire life who has never and will never leave her, betray her, or do anything but love her believed it. That's how you know.

 

[ukkid09]

I would have done what everyone else had done. I did NOT like Buffy at all in the latter parts of season 7. She snubbed everyone she ever knew and trusted and decided to act on her own when the entire concept of WHY Buffy was so different from every other slayer ever was that she relied on her friends.


S1 - Xander gives her mouth to mouth or she dies.
S2 - Willow re-ensouls Angel.
S3 - Cordelia and Angel lead the students, Giles and Xander nuke the Mayor.
S4 - Willow, Xander, and Giles all give her their power to defeat ADAM.
S5 - Willow, Spike, Anya, Giles, Xander, Tara all charge Glory to help her.
S6 - Buffy fails, Xander succeeds.

So all of a sudden in Season 7 now Buffy is the ONLY one capable of making the 'tough decisions'? I call serious foul on that one. She was in over her head, she was angry at herself for being taken in by the First Evil, she was acting out of emotion.

I'm not saying she should have taken a vote, but she has at her disposal, three (or more) people who are honest to God heroes. Xander, Willow and Giles are just as much apart of this as she was and for her to not consult them or even to ask their opinion was a sign of her immense recklessness and emotionality.

She was in the wrong, I firmly believe that. Not only that but Xander, the one most loyal person ever in her entire life who has never and will never leave her, betray her, or do anything but love her believed it. That's how you know.

But its visa versa, season 2 Buffy killed Angelus willow didn't know the difference, Buffy jumped of a divine board to save the world, Buffy got the scythe to create a mini army to give them a little hope of survival. If their were Victorious in the vine yard before I think their have a different thought about the whole thing.
You carnt change the fact that Buffy was right and her friends were wrong. I disagree all this time their listen to her Stradge and she always execute the plan from day one and their followed.
Buffy was doing what she needed to do. Her job. The Scooby's always stood up for her and now they're ambushing her like that..
If I had been Buffy, I would have cursed them all out and then kicked them out and let them fend for themselves. Giles brought the Potentials to Buffy. She did not ask for them. Finally, I would have let the Scoobies know that out friendship is over. You don't turn on someone who has has been right 99% of the time after one defeat.