Enemies question

[Hero]

This is one of my top 10 episodes, but I'm always confused. At what point did they know Angel was only acting? I'm really confused about the whole thing so I don't even know how to ask the question correctly lol. Why did the magic guy not turn Angel in the first place? Because of loyalty to Giles and he saw that as the gift being repaid and not to summon him again? And if he didn't ever turn Angel to begin with when did he have time to tell Buffy? Did Giles meet with this magic guy before the meeting towards the end of the episode, so Giles told Buffy before Faith and Angel arrived at her house? Is my question making enough sense that anyone can answer it? lol

 

[GrrArghx]

The whole thing was planned from the beginning. The demon wasn't evil, at least I didn't think so. He just pretended to be evil and change Angel.

However, I am really interested in when exactly they decided to concoct the whole plan.

From watching the episode many times, I'm beginning to believe Buffy started the whole plan after they went to the demon's house to get the books of ascension and found him dead. By the look on her face, it looks as though she was realizing it was Faith... or at least thought it could be her.

I am pretty sure though, that Buffy told Giles and Angel and they decided to do the whole 'charade'.
Buffy says Angel 'only did what [she] asked', so that's why I'm pretty sure it was the three of them.
They just didn't tell Wesley or any of the rest of the gang.

Another instance is when Buffy goes to her house to get her stuff, before Faith & Angel take her back to the mansion, Giles looks after her and tells her to 'Be careful' and I think that he was telling her to just be careful of Faith and try to be strong through the whole thing so she could get enough info to see if Faith really was turning her back on them.

Just my opinion 🙂

 

[BuffyElevated]

The whole thing was planned from the beginning. The demon wasn't evil, at least I didn't think so. He just pretended to be evil and change Angel.

However, I am really interested in when exactly they decided to concoct the whole plan.

From watching the episode many times, I'm beginning to believe Buffy started the whole plan after they went to the demon's house to get the books of ascension and found him dead. By the look on her face, it looks as though she was realizing it was Faith... or at least thought it could be her.

I am pretty sure though, that Buffy told Giles and Angel and they decided to do the whole 'charade'.
Buffy says Angel 'only did what [she] asked', so that's why I'm pretty sure it was the three of them.
They just didn't tell Wesley or any of the rest of the gang.

Another instance is when Buffy goes to her house to get her stuff, before Faith & Angel take her back to the mansion, Giles looks after her and tells her to 'Be careful' and I think that he was telling her to just be careful of Faith and try to be strong through the whole thing so she could get enough info to see if Faith really was turning her back on them.

Just my opinion 🙂

Wow, very good insights... This episode was confusing to me the first couple times I saw it, but now I absolutely LOVE it. Watching it now, I tend to agree with everything GrrArghX3 said up there ^^.

 

[NY State of Mind]

Well it was planned from the beginning..when Buffy leaves class to see Angel is when they most likely talked it over..she said he wasnt there when she went to see him but that was just a front

 

[Hero]

The whole thing was planned from the beginning. The demon wasn't evil, at least I didn't think so. He just pretended to be evil and change Angel.

However, I am really interested in when exactly they decided to concoct the whole plan.

From watching the episode many times, I'm beginning to believe Buffy started the whole plan after they went to the demon's house to get the books of ascension and found him dead. By the look on her face, it looks as though she was realizing it was Faith... or at least thought it could be her.

I am pretty sure though, that Buffy told Giles and Angel and they decided to do the whole 'charade'.
Buffy says Angel 'only did what [she] asked', so that's why I'm pretty sure it was the three of them.
They just didn't tell Wesley or any of the rest of the gang.

Another instance is when Buffy goes to her house to get her stuff, before Faith & Angel take her back to the mansion, Giles looks after her and tells her to 'Be careful' and I think that he was telling her to just be careful of Faith and try to be strong through the whole thing so she could get enough info to see if Faith really was turning her back on them.

Just my opinion 🙂

You know, I never picked up on any of that. lol The quotes you provided along with your explanation tend to make me agree with you. Only thing that would make me question your theory is when Buffy says something to Angel about it being too real. That made me think that she didn't know what was going on. Maybe when Angel didn't do the chains right she realized? Idk?

 

[GrrArghx]

You know, I never picked up on any of that. lol The quotes you provided along with your explanation tend to make me agree with you. Only thing that would make me question your theory is when Buffy says something to Angel about it being too real. That made me think that she didn't know what was going on. Maybe when Angel didn't do the chains right she realized? Idk?

I think she just meant that it was hard to see him act that way. What she went through with Angelus was tramatizing, to say the least, and even though he was only acting it was still hard for her to watch him act like Angelus and kiss Faith.

She says later, in Earshot, that she thinks maybe he might've enjoyed it. It was just her being insecure, IMO.

 

[Hero]

Oh, Buffy, suck it up! lol

Glad you cleared that up for me. Thank you.

 

[Tome]

I always thought that part of the episode was strange. I kinda guessed that in between the moment the sorcerer met the Mayor and when he did the spell on Angel, that Buffy and Giles had contacted him. But it seemed far fetched to me... But now with GRRARGH explanation it make more sense! Thanks =P

 

[Eleftheria]

Buffy knew all along. Giles and Angel too. What GrrArghh said is very correct!

Buffy just felt awful watching Angel getting ready to torture her and him and Faith kissing right in front of her. He was faking it yes, but the "angelus experience" of last season traumatised her, that's for sure. And he hated himeslf for this too. I could see it in his face in the end.

I think in Earshot, she was indeed insecure cause she thought that Angel( who had been in fact a very bad boy in his past!:embarrassed🙂 would prefer Faith who is the bad girl of the story. She is provocative, sexy and doesn't care about killing people. Buffy thought that her being the good girl wasn't so appealing to Angel. But I wonder, how blind could she be??? Angel was crazy about her. He would never fall for Faith!

 

[Skytteflickan88]

Many good guesses in here. I assumed the magic demon person thing was contacted by the Mayor to do the spell, and he contacted Giles to re-pay the favor, or the Giles found out about the spell and asked him not to do it (the first seems more likely to me). Then the planning started.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

Didn't Giles introduce the demon to his wife? It's been awhile since I watched that one but for some reason that's stuck in my head as the favor the demon was repaying.

 

[Allie]

Didn't Giles introduce the demon to his wife? It's been awhile since I watched that one but for some reason that's stuck in my head as the favor the demon was repaying.

Yes, that was the favor the demon was repaying him for 🙂. I love that ep! So awesome, double crosses rock! It seemed a lot of the time horrible things happened to Buffy, and in this episode she was ahead of it, without us knowing. Awesome!

 

[BibliophileAnn]

I always thought the kiss that Angel gives Buffy on her head is a pre-arranged signal that means get ready.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

To be honest, I was confused to. For first, how did Giles knew what were Faith and The Mayor planning? That's the only thing I don't get. Other things they didn't show because it was more interesting like that, I'm sure they had time to connect each other in some scenes we never saw.

 

[BibliophileAnn]

The demon came to Giles and told him about the plot to take Angel's soul away because the demon owed him a favor.

 

[DoughnutHole]

The demon came to Giles and told him about the plot to take Angel's soul away because the demon owed him a favor.

yeah, that's the conclusion i came to. Because I also wondered how Giles even knew of the mayor's plans. So I assumed that the demon knew Giles had a relationship with Angel through Buffy, and came to Giles as soon as he was contracted to perform the spell.

I don't think that Angel was ever actually soulless in this episode. He was playing from the beginning.

 

[BibliophileAnn]

I could tell the first time I saw this episode that Angel was still souled and was just acting like he didn't have one. If you don't know before you defintely know when it shows Angel handcuffing Buffy up by the gentle and concerned look on his face. It is a good thing the demon owed Giles a favor and came to him first or else the mayor might have found someone else who really could have taken Angel's soul away by magic. Faith couldn't do it

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Oh well, bang goes the theory that Xander did it, just so that Angel could hit him, mucks up the theory about Xander being a masochist as well.

 

[crazysoulless]

I agree that Buffy suspected Faith since she was already on guard with her from seeing her kiss Angel on the cheek (and visiting him behind Buffy's back) and then at the demon's apartment Faith knew exactly where the light switch was and was giving reasons why the slaughter of that demon wasn't "someone's idea of a party." Giles gets contacted by the Shaman and he goes to tell Angel and Buffy at the same time she goes to them with her Faith suspicions.

I remember I knew it was Angel and not Angelus when he was putting Buffy in chains. The way he moved them to wake her up and looked up at her with that expression on his face. And then again when Faith says "Did anyone ever ask if you could be more like me?!" and he says "I know I didn't" Buffy gives him this "Don't blow our cover" expression.

I understood why Buffy would be so jealous. He was her first love/lover and it was a really intense relationship. She constantly feared that he would suddenly realize that he didn't really love her or get bored with her and leave her. And she knew that the curse had a "perfect happiness" clause not a "perfect orgasm" clause. There was A LOT of unresolved sexual tension between Angel & Buffy that year. Enemies even started off with Buffy fearing that Angel would get sexually frustrated. She knew that he had over a century worth of sexual experience compared to her one night in Surprise. He'd no doubt had one night stands and casual sex and many lovers. She knew that Faith was a "get some get gone" kind of person that had no problem with sleeping with friends or allies.