Enemies

Tueuse de Vampires

Tueuse de Vampires

Love will tear us apart..
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Sineya
Now, this is a great episode, but does anyone else have trouble following the exact succesion of events here?

At what time did Buffy and Angel decide to play Faith? When did Giles console with his demon friend? At what point were the Scoobies filled in?

I sort of lost track of all of the above. Like, I think the mayor had the talk with the demon (about Angel losing his soul). After that Buffy talked with Willow about how she saw Faith and Angel together? So was her talk with Willow already after they made the plan (which would make sense because of the demon guy who was already there), and if so, why did Buffy keep quiet to Willow?

Aaaahhh, it's all so very confusing.
 
Sweetescape
Sweetescape
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I absolutely understand your trouble, I feel the same way, it's just confusing. I mean, of course it's great that you're confused the first time you see it, but even on subsequent viewings I don't get the hang on the timeline of events... I try not to think about it too much. ^^
 
I agree.
I love this episode, but it is confusing.
Also...did Willow and the others know about the plan? Because I always sort of thought they didn't. Xander, at least, is shocked when Angel punches him and I always thought he didn't know he was acting. But I'm not sure.
Hmph.
 
I've only watched it the once but I agree, it's very confusing. I knew what was going to happen having read an episode summary, yet I still couldn't see any bits where it hinted towards what actually happened.

Guess it all just happened off screen in an alternate time world or something!
 
I think that the whole thing was cooked up by Giles with Buffy and Angel doing the real work, and nobody else knowing anything about it. That way there would be no chance that either Xander or Willow would inadvertently (as in STUPIDLY) blow the whole thing.
 
November
November
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white avenger said:
I think that the whole thing was cooked up by Giles with Buffy and Angel doing the real work, and nobody else knowing anything about it. That way there would be no chance that either Xander or Willow would inadvertently (as in STUPIDLY) blow the whole thing.
Click to expand...

I agree. You were supposed to not see it coming. Otherwise the plan would have been blown. It's just one of those episodes where stuff is going on off camera, and you just have to accept it.

It's one of my favourite episodes, actually.
 
Airam
Airam
exactly.
I agree with the Scoobies not knowing it, but there's still the thing with Giles and Buffy and Angel; if the Mayor asked the guy to remove Angel's soul happened before Buffy having a talk with Angel, but after leaving him after she saw him and Faith together, at what point did she then tel him about the plan? And anyway, how did they know the Mayor was going to take Angel's soul?


I just literally came up with the thought that maybe Giles wizard-demon friend came to Giles after the Mayor had summoned him? I mean, in hindsight, it was quite an obvious plan, but how on Earth could they know the Mayor was going to do it at that moment? Or did Giles send a message to his 'friend' with 'Oh, if by any chance, Mayor Wilkins asks you to take Angels soul, just, erm, don't' ?
 
I think they say at the end of the episode that the demon did come to Giles after the mayor asked him to remove Angel's soul, out of gratitude for Giles introducing him to his wife. Giles says to him 'thank you for coming to me', and the demon then says 'now we're even' or something like that.
 
itsxpaperdoll said:
Or did Giles send a message to his 'friend' with 'Oh, if by any chance, Mayor Wilkins asks you to take Angels soul, just, erm, don't' ?
Click to expand...
Hahaha. The thing is, I can totally see Giles placing a phone call like that. 🙂

But yeah, I think the mayor probably told the demon a bit about Angel...possibly, he mentioned Buffy/the Scoobies and therefore the demon knew Giles was associated with Angel, so he went to him to see if all was kosher.
Just a theory, anyway.
 
Alright, so I was watching this epi again 2 days ago and my gl & I started a pretty interesting discussion: for her Faith was ONLY acting her part so to give Angel his Perfect Happiness moment so to lose his soul again. But for me she was actually opening up to him, yes she was allies with the mayor at the moment but IMO after killing the demon that had the books something really clicked inside her that's why we got to see her reaction when she was on his own at the apartment after the killing. So my theory is, she went straight to Angel and if he gave into her she was gonna keep Angel for herself and maybe some help along the way too, but since he went all "I can't Faith, I love Buffy" kinda line she didn't.

What you guys think?
 
As far as the succession of events goes...

I always saw it happening like this.

-Mayor summons demon.
-Demon locates giles telling him about this.
-Angel is communicated with by Giles. The plan is hatched.
-Buffy doesn't realize until Angel has *loosely* locked her up.

But maybe Buffy knew all along...she just seemed really hurt up until she was locked up.
 
I think Buffy knew all along. She's obviously going to look hurt because Angel is being all sexy with Faith which would obviously suck. Especially as she has already been feeling insecure about whether Angel would prefer to be with her. I also don't think that Giles would be stupid enough to set up this plan without warning Buffy, due to all the hurt she experienced when he really was Angelus. Giles wouldn't do that to her 🙂

I agree with you Kali, it all goes on off camera so that WE think Faith has really taken his soul.

This is quite possibly my favourite episode 🙂

Entropy - I think I agree that she is genuine when she first goes to Angel. I think the first time she tries to kiss him is actually because she wants to be loved and misconstrues Angel's feelings when he is just trying to help.
 
I love this episode. One of s3's best. DB is so convincing when he changes from Angel to Angelus. I lol'ed when he punches Xander then says 'that guy just bugs me'. I loved Angeluses first meeting with the mayor too, mayors always entertaining. Why was the mayor so eager to become a demon, he'd be much better off staying in his human form all imprivious(sp)
 
just watched this ep...i think that angel new something was going on and told buffy, then she may have followed faith.


and i dont think that xander will oz and them new. (where they came in the mansion with stakes and crosses)
 
I had always assumed that;
-The demon had been summoned.
-The demon tells Giles
-Giles tells Buffy and Angel, and they all make up their little plan.

Was a really, really amazing episode. probably one of the best of season 3 (and I love season 3)
 
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