English Stereotype

[Cast No Shadow]

Does anyone else think Spike wasn't authentically English?

I love Spike, he's one of my favourites, but I often think that in American programmes, English people are stereotyped. It wasn't what he said, but the amount of times he said it, like he'd say both "bloody hell" and "sod off" in one utterance, two ultimately British, if not English sayings, and it wouldn't actually ever happen.

It's not a criticism, as I say, I love Spike and really enjoy watching him.

 

[Christopher]

The show is written by Americans. The majority of Americans have absolutely no idea what England is really like.

 

[sisterofmercy]

Both Giles and Spike were extremely stereotypical of English folk, but I suppose that was just due to it being an American series for primarily (to begin with anyway) American people.

 

[Cast No Shadow]

Both Giles and Spike were extremely stereotypical of English folk, but I suppose that was just due to it being an American series for primarily (to begin with anyway) American people.

I've never thought it of Giles, actually. He's an eccentric, but I don't think that's a specifically English thing.

 

[Nix]

I say bloody hell and sod off!!!! Along with lots of other things lol.

 

[patriot1123]

I just today heard an interview with Anthony Stewart Head, where he said that he was pleasantly surprised at how UN-stereotypical Giles was. He thinks Joss had the British character spot on.

I've also read or heard interviews where Anthony praised James's work, saying that he did a great job of playing a British character.

So FWIW Anthony (who is in a position to know) does not think that either character was written or played in a stereotypical way.

 

[sisterofmercy]

I've never thought it of Giles, actually. He's an eccentric, but I don't think that's a specifically English thing.

If you look back to the first series, he was a stuffy but intelligent guy who studied (albeit briefly) at Oxford. That sounds pretty stereotypical to me. I think as the show progressed it did weaken a lot until he was just a man that happened to be British, but the first few seasons he did seem to be very stereotypical of the reserved Brit image (not that there's anything wrong with that necessarily 😛 ).

In saying that though, there are different interpretations of the British stereotype so we both may have a point.

 

[BuffyElevated]

The show is written by Americans. The majority of Americans have absolutely no idea what England is really like.

Exactly... I think Spike seems very British, but you know... I'm from America. LOL

 

[Cast No Shadow]

I just today heard an interview with Anthony Stewart Head, where he said that he was pleasantly surprised at how UN-stereotypical Giles was. He thinks Joss had the British character spot on.

I've also read or heard interviews where Anthony praised James's work, saying that he did a great job of playing a British character.

So FWIW Anthony (who is in a position to know) does not think that either character was written or played in a stereotypical way.

Yeah, as I've said, I didn't think it as much of Giles, but I did certainly of Spike. And yes, ASH is likely to know, but I am equally English, so I think I probably have as much right to an opinion as well.

---------- Post added at 05:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:57 PM ----------

Exactly... I think Spike seems very British, but you know... I'm from America. LOL

He is very English, but I don't think he is authentically English.

 

[patriot1123]

Yeah, as I've said, I didn't think it as much of Giles, but I did certainly of Spike. And yes, ASH is likely to know, but I am equally English, so I think I probably have as much right to an opinion as well.

Absolutely. And, as an American, I'm in no position to know. It's an interesting discussion, though. (I also think that Anthony goes out of his way to say positive things about his co-stars. I'm not saying he's not sincere, but I don't think he would say anything negative even if he thought it.)

 

[Cast No Shadow]

Absolutely. And, as an American, I'm in no position to know. It's an interesting discussion, though. (I also think that Anthony goes out of his way to say positive things about his co-stars. I'm not saying he's not sincere, but I don't think he would say anything negative even if he thought it.)

Yeah, I agree. As an actor you're under public scrutiny, so it's a rarity that you would say something negative about fellow actors. At the same time, it's nothing to do with the acting, or the actor, rather than the writing.

---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:02 PM ----------

If you look back to the first series, he was a stuffy but intelligent guy who studied (albeit briefly) at Oxford. That sounds pretty stereotypical to me. I think as the show progressed it did weaken a lot until he was just a man that happened to be British, but the first few seasons he did seem to be very stereotypical of the reserved Brit image (not that there's anything wrong with that necessarily 😛 ).

In saying that though, there are different interpretations of the British stereotype so we both may have a point.

You raise a good point, I think that the typical Oxford stereotype is of an arrogant know-it-all, and I don't think Giles portrays this. I think he portays an intelligent man from England, who has a lot of compassion and understanding, a lot of that, I don't find stereotypical.

I agree completely with your point that there are different interpretations though, and think you raise a valuable point.

---------- Post added at 06:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:05 PM ----------

I didn't say anything about him being arrogant, more like reserved and somewhat socially stilted due to having his head in a book constantly

I never said you did.

 

[Doppelgang]

He's an American Actor in an American show written primariliy for American people. The stereotype he portrays is the Billy Idol/ Johnny Rotten image. Wesley also is very stereotypically english and once again he's an American Actor.

Giles starts off very stereo-typical I think with all the stuttering and bookishness and shyness and reserved behaviour, but then as he gets into the role and controls it more I think he's able to portray a more genuine British image.

I never really bothered to think of Spike as representing a genuine English person as he so clearly doesn't, I just think of him as a character in his own right that can represent and symbolise certain types of people at certain points in their life, the rebel without a cause kind of image for instance, and so thankfully I don't have to think of him burdened with being a "genuine" British person.

 

[patriot1123]

I don't mean to hijack this into a discussion about Giles (my favorite topic!) but, regardless whether the character was a stereotype or not, the Scoobies certainly treated him like one, teasing him about scones, and drinking tea, and during the Thanksgiving episode (Pangs). Funny stuff. Oh, and Spike did too, in Tabula Rasa (until he realized he was English too) ("welcome to the Nancy tribe").

 

[Cast No Shadow]

He's an American Actor in an American show written primariliy for American people. The stereotype he portrays is the Billy Idol/ Johnny Rotten image. Wesley also is very stereotypically english and once again he's an American Actor.

Giles starts off very stereo-typical I think with all the stuttering and bookishness and shyness and reserved behaviour, but then as he gets into the role and controls it more I think he's able to portray a more genuine British image.

I never really bothered to think of Spike as representing a genuine English person as he so clearly doesn't, I just think of him as a character in his own right that can represent and symbolise certain types of people at certain points in their life, the rebel without a cause kind of image for instance, and so thankfully I don't have to think of him burdened with being a "genuine" British person.

I agree with this in part, and I wasn't criticising, whether or not JM was playing a Billy Idol sort of part, I was asking about his authenticity as an English person.

---------- Post added at 06:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 PM ----------

And I said he wasn't authentic as an English Person

I was agreeing with you.

 

[Doppelgang]

I was agreeing with you.

Sorry, just me being a bit stupid and imagining a disagreement where there isn't one :shh:

 

[Taake]

But then... what makes an authentic English character/person?