Ensouling a vampire....

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Perigon

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Why is it none of the scoobies have tried to return the soul of any vampires other than Angel? I mean, there are obviously ways to do it... Both Angel and Spike have souls now. If you caught a vampire that had just been turned, wouldn't it be worth the effort to return it's soul?
 
some people are monsters even when they have souls and if you do return it the vamp would be all crazy for a while like spike and angel did when they got theirs back so why not just kill them? and thats a lot of work for them to do
 
additonally, it's unfair for them to take the innocent souls, many of which are presumably in heaven, and force them to share space with a demon. Spike sought his out, and that was his business, and Angel has shown that he does know that it's his duty to be ensouled and fighting, thus their being ensouled is justified
 
rene said:
some people are monsters even when they have souls and if you do return it the vamp would be all crazy for a while like spike and angel did when they got theirs back so why not just kill them? and thats a lot of work for them to do
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If they were just turned they wouldn't go crazy because they wouldn't have killed anyone. That is why Spike and Angel went crazy. Their past was haunting them.
 
Perigon said:
If you caught a vampire that had just been turned, wouldn't it be worth the effort to return it's soul?
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No, because the person who became a vampire was just murdered by a monster that is walking around with his or her mind and body as a shell. There is nothing of the former individual left. The body and mind still exist but they aren't essential. Buffy's body didn't go to heaven her soul did. Souls are the important part of a human being. So, once a person is dead his or her soul hopefully finds peace. To return that soul to the body of a vampire is a cruel trick. The person now remembers everything the vampire did or thought as his or her own thoughts and feelings since the vampire memories are recorded in the mind and has to deal with all the anguish involved. Plus since the personality of the vampire is determined by that of the person to some degree, the vampire offers a window into the type of evil and individual would commit without as an amoral or even evil being. No one should have to cope with that. I'm not saying I wouldn't return the soul of a close friend, familiy member, or lover who was vamped. I'm selfish. I'm just saying that to do so knowing the consequences would be evil.

Vampires like Spike and Harmony are a special case. They are amoral versions of the previous person trying to cope in an uncomprehensible world. It is interesting to me that a souless demon like Spike or Harm can strive for good. I think that shows that both were essentially kind people before they were vamped, which is funny considering Harmony's unthinking cruelty in High School. Well she did say she admired Willow.
 
Did anyone notice Willow's spell was different from the gypsies'? Like maybe Angel wasn't held by the same rules anymore. What if he could have Perfect Happiness now, but everyone presumes he can't?

Joe
 
Joe said:
Did anyone notice Willow's spell was different from the gypsies'? Like maybe Angel wasn't held by the same rules anymore. What if he could have Perfect Happiness now, but everyone presumes he can't?

Joe
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I never thought that he couldn't. Jasmine=Perfect Happiness Angel didn't become happy Angelus so....
 
Good point, either they get another strong warrior on the side of good or they can just kill him with soul, if he stays evil...
 
Again, if you watch the old episodes. The spell spoken by the Gypsies is not the spell spoken by Willow. There COULD be many differences. I'm surprised that this was not followed up on.

Joe
 
Joe said:
Did anyone notice Willow's spell was different from the gypsies'? Like maybe Angel wasn't held by the same rules anymore. What if he could have Perfect Happiness now, but everyone presumes he can't?

Joe
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I've always thought about the same thing!.Willow's spell was different...and the spell Jenny found was the spell of Restoration,it didn't mention the True Happiness clause
 
Their spell merely restored the original, whatever special clauses it may have had, I think that is how you must see it.
 
I think as well, especially if they started resouling the newly made vamps, there would be a problem with explaining it to their families. If you have a newly made vamp with a soul they may want to contact their families, or they may be seen. That would make the supernatural world more public. It wouldn't be a problem with older vampires because all their relatives are dead.
 
Not to mention that they could loose their soul just as easy as gettin it; prob. easier. Some might not be able to take the pressure and go loose it to become their former more evil self. Thats what sets my Angel apart from the others; he's a champion. *drools*
 
You meant MY Angel..I just think it's most the matter of effort that'd have to be put into restoring a vamp's soul...They'd have to get more Witches to do it...
 
Joe said:
Again, if you watch the old episodes. The spell spoken by the Gypsies is not the spell spoken by Willow. There COULD be many differences. I'm surprised that this was not followed up on.

Joe
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Er... actually, he has gone big-bad since then. First season of Angel, a girl slipped him some drugs and made him happy. He became Angelus temporairly... Don't ask me why it was only temporary, it never made a whole lot of sence to me. But ya...

Anyway, a lot of you say, "Hey, their souls are in heaven, leave'em alone...", and I've seen no proof of this what-so-ever... actually, I've always been under the impression that their souls either go to a void, or to hell.

And keep in mind, I said a vampire who had JUST TURNED. They haven't killed anyone, they haven't been playing poker for kittens, none of that. They probably hadn't even been in whatever other dimension for very long. Please don't tell me it's too much work either, Buffy and the gang save people, it's what they do. No matter how much work is required, they'll do what it takes to save someone's life or soul.

Seems like a plot-hole to me...
 
WatcherWes said:
additonally, it's unfair for them to take the innocent souls, many of which are presumably in heaven, and force them to share space with a demon. Spike sought his out, and that was his business, and Angel has shown that he does know that it's his duty to be ensouled and fighting, thus their being ensouled is justified
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Actually, what happens to the soul of a person turned is a bit of a question mark. Angel's soul was said to be 'in the ether'. Darla said she had no memory or anything and found herself doubting the existence of any form of afterlife. It seems to have been left intentionally vague.

In the end though, ensouling a vamp isn't the nicest thing to do to said soul. Think back to Orpheus (AtS season 4). Angelus made it very clear that he was always a part of Angel (and it was even suggested that Angel was always a part of Angelus, so perhaps the soul is trapped inside the vampire and is only freed by having the vampire slain). Essentially, Angel has a demon inside him that is very much aware and trying to influence him. On a daily basis he has a being of pure evil inside him who knows all his fears and weaknesses trying to drive him to evil.

Then you have the whole 'banished forever to the night' bit. Having to exist for eternity and lead a bleak and dreary sunless life while watching your loved ones grow old and die. Having to drink blood to survive, and only ever feel truly satisfied if that blood is human.

Death isn't always the cruelest fate.
 
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