Episode Deletion

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

This thread was inspired by the recent conversation that is taking place in the "Say anything's possible, who should Angel be with?" thread.

So here's how this thread works:

Say you could delete any episode from the Buffy/Angelverse canon: which one would you choose and why?

We all have issues with some choices the writers have made in the series for whatever reason. Perhaps for the Spuffies and the Tillows, it's the entirety of "Seeing Red." Or, maybe it's Spike's "No you don't. But thanks for saying it" at the end of 'Chosen.' Or, maybe it's Anya's death you could never understand, or Angel's decision to kill Conner that gets to you. Maybe you wish Spike had never showed up, so you'd choose to delete 'School Hard' from the canon. Perhaps you wish Doyle had never died, and you'd choose 'Hero.' Or, maybe you felt that Joyce should have never died, so you'd choose to delete 'The Body.' Get it?

...the possibilities are endless! Forget about any repercussions/ripple effects/glitches that the deleted episode would potentially cause in the the 'verse - there's no rules here, this is just for fun - simply choose what episode you would "delete" if you could and tell me why! 🙂

Mine is 'Seeing Red.' As you all know, a day doesn't go by where I don't wish that episode didn't exist for several reasons. Spike's assault on Buffy will always seem OOC to me, and Tara's death will always feel needless and cruel. *sigh*

I look forward to your responses.

 

[GrrArghx]

Oh my goodness, there's so many I would get rid of! lol

BtVS: The Prom - obvious reasons, because Angel left Buffy 😛 lol
AtS: Hero - As you said, Doyle dies and man I loved him soo much. It was so heartbreaking.
AtS: Sanctuary - That fight Angel & Buffy had at the end is so harsh and I really hate it.
BtVS: Out of My Mind - Spike realizes he's in love with Buffy; wish that never happened 😛
BtVS: Wild at Heart - Oz cheats on Willow and leaves 🙁

There's probably more, but that's all for right now 😀
I actually love most of the episodes I listed, but if I could change them, I would lol

 

[xaphania]

Hmm, I'm not sure if I'd delete any of the episodes. Because, even in the episodes I really don't like, there are usually some really great scenes.

So perhaps I'd delete moments, rather than entire episodes. For example... I really dislike both The I in Team and Goodbye Iowa from season four, but there are some fab scenes (I'm thinking particularly of when they remove the tracer from Spike's shoulder, and Willow does the ionising spell).

I love Chosen as an episode, but I'd get rid of the cookie speech - but keep the bit beforehand when Angel's all complainy about Spike's soul (Oh my God, are you twelve?) 😀

Seeing Red... okay, so I'd probably get rid of a whole load of this episode (the AR, Tara's death) but I love the scene at the start when Dawn comes out of her room at the same time as Tara and Willow, so I wouldn't want to get rid of the whole ep.

So yeah, for me... it's more about deleting scenes rather than whole episodes. Even in the stinkers, there are good parts.

 

[Kean]

I would get rid of Seeing Red and pretty much the entire build up to it in the previous eps. I pretty much don't buy any of the character's actions in S6 but mostly I have concern about the mixed message the show gave out. Buffy was created to be the show where the Blonde chick fought back, she wasn't made victim to a man's world yet to have her over powered and begging Spike to not rape her when she had killed much bigger and badder demons than him countless times before without even breaking a sweat was nothing short of a disgrace. Buffy used the power of methaphor masterly but here they had to chance to tackle something raw and real and they failed specatcularly. If the producers were going to take the show in the direction where it led to Buffy and Spike in that bathroom then the only way it should have ended was with Spike as a pile of dust. Instead we got a gross disservice to the characters but also to us the fans.

 

[Emzzie]

Bye bye "Seeing Red". Kean pretty much summed it up for me. It was just wrong and Buffy could have fought him off. It was inconsistant with our heroine and was obvious the writers wanted us to accept that it was possible with the sloppy reason that her back was hurt. Buff has fought with way more injuries. Plus, I felt it was way out of character for Spike.

 

[white avenger]

Actually, I don't think that I would want to eliminate any episode in the entire series. Certainly not the ones that I liked, because...well...because I LIKED them. And the ones that I didn't particularly like, like "Seeing Red," "As You Were," "I Will Remember You," and others are just too much fun arguing over with my friends here. I WOULD, however, have liked to see a few lines added here and there, like after Buffy tells Spike in "First Date" that she isn't ready for him to not be there. I would have loved for Spike to have said, "Okay, Slayer, just for this one time, let's quit beating around the damn bush. I'm here for you, however you need me, but, damn it to hell, just HOW do you need me? Say it plain, so we can both understand, and so all of the Spuffies and Bangels out there watching don't have to spend the next ten bloody years arguing over just what you REALLY mean."

Or, later, in "End Of Days," when Spike asks, "What does that mean?" and Buffy replies, "Does it have to mean anything?" I wanted so badly for Spike to say, "You're damn right, it has to mean something. Now, WHAT DOES THAT BLOODY MEAN?"

And a few others.

 

[Willow-Tree]

Connor never died....?

 

[Kelsey]

I think Seeing Red is going to be a popular answer here. Other than that, though... I don't know if I'd remove any of them. Like Xaphania said, even episodes I hate have beautiful parts in them. Like, I despise As You Were. Sloppy writing, terrible plot, and I dislike the blatant "SPIKE IS EVIL! TOLD YOU!" plotline. But at the same time, this line of Spike's is great: "That's bloody funny coming from you! No more games? That's all you've ever done is play me! You keep playing with rules you make up as you like. You KNOW what I am. You've always known. You come to be all the same." The way James delivered that line was incredible, and it really shows Spike's frustration with Buffy. And believe it or not, I liked the break-up scene, too. I could have done with some rewording, but in general it was good.

Whoops, bit of a tangent. But yes, so in short, I'd change some scenes, and I'd axe Seeing Red. Other than that... I'm good.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I'm not surprised 'Seeing Red' is the choice of the day.

So, let's extend this thread topic to not only episodes you'd like eliminated but also specific moments and specific lines. That should make it more general and easier to answer.

 

[ubi4soft]

I'll just let Angel be the latino-guy as it was intended from the beginning, guess the brooding would had been more fun in Mexican.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Dead Things. I never liked that episode. As I see it, it's humiliating.

Also, I would delete that scene when they put chip in Spike's had, and I wouldn't kill Anya.

For now, that's all.

 

[MinwaraYana]

Grave - It would be nice if Spike never got his soul back. I was disappointed when the demon said "We will return your soul". I really thought Big Bad Spike that I loved will be back.

She - Just delete it, please. 😛

 

[InsaneMystic]

Ok, some uncommon choices then: 😉

Passion - Definitely a great ep, but I just miss Jenny. She was funny, and Giles and her fit so well together.

Not Fade Away - I just hate the cliffhangerish ending, and the conclusion to the Blackthorn mini-arc is totally hasted as well.

Why We Fight - Wouldn't want to get rid of the ep, but I'd lose Spike's Nazi uniform if given half a chance. I wince every time I see him in it.

Amends - Gah. What a bore. Lose the ep, and no one will see the difference. The First could just show up in S7, and wouldn't be any worse for the wear. Actually, it wouldn't have the "The season's Big Bad is recycled from that episode? Rrrright." effect for me, that would make it better. 😛

 

[white avenger]

It's interesting that so many people want to eliminate "Seeing Red," and I agree that it is without the darkest episode of Season 6, if not the entire series, but, as bad as it was, I think that it was also necessary, becaues without it, or something just as terrible, Spike would have never gone through what he did to regain his soul, and without the return of hid soul, I doubt that Buffy would have ever believed in and trusted him enough the next season to defend him so strenuously against her friends or to have had the chip removed from his head, both of which were absolutely vital to the genersl story line of Season 7. Despite how strong Spike was, the main reason that he was able to resist total control by the First as well as endure the torture that he endured at the hands the Bringers and the Turok Han was four simple words. "She believes in me." And try to imagine a Spike still restrained by the chip defending himself from Robin Wood.

Despite its content, despite the pain, humiliation, and degradation that it represented, without "Seeing Red" the entire Buffy/Spike subplot of Season 7 would have been almost impossible. I don't like the episode as it stands alone, but within the ongoing story of Buffy and Spike, it is probably one of the most important episodes of the series.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

I would dump Seeing Red. There's so much in that episode that's out of character. The whole AR is a stupid plot device and I cannot watch that scene. And I'm not a sensitive type. I just hate it.

I'm not sure I would have given Spike his soul back the way they did. Maybe eventually, but to me the whole point of Spike's character arc was that he became a better person even without his soul, that love is powerful enough to change even someone who shouldn't have the capacity for either love OR change. Buffy's disgust with his soulless state was wrong, IMO, and that should have been addressed. Her emphasis in season 7, "But he has a soul now. He has a soul now. yeah, but he has a soul now..." Like that was the defining thing that made Spike into a better person. Sorry but his soul just made him crazy for awhile. The essence of who Spike was as a person, beneath the demon, is what made him a better person. He was capable of loving Buffy, of doing selfless things because of love, before the magic soul restoration. And that whole point was completely glossed over, and even negated, by the events of season 7. That annoys me even more than the stupid, out of character crap in Seeing Red. But it's not just one episode, it's the entire arc of that season, starting with the last scene in season 6.

---------- Post added at 07:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 AM ----------

Oh, and in Angel can I just get rid of all of season 4?

 

[white avenger]

I really don't want to hijack, Joan's thread by turning this into a debate over the merits of "Seeing Red," though I'm sure that the lady would be gracious enough to allow it, so I'll just conclude by agreeing with you about Angel's Season 4.

 

[Washburne]

I'm with Xaphania. I'd just delete scenes. And since the thread is about deleting episodes there's no reason to even try and remember all bad scenes I'd cut out.

 

[Kean]

Season 6 of Buffy and Season 4 of Angel, buh-bye!

 

[ubi4soft]

Delete Angel character from the BtVS

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

It's interesting that so many people want to eliminate "Seeing Red," and I agree that it is without the darkest episode of Season 6, if not the entire series, but, as bad as it was, I think that it was also necessary, becaues without it, or something just as terrible, Spike would have never gone through what he did to regain his soul, and without the return of hid soul, I doubt that Buffy would have ever believed in and trusted him enough the next season to defend him so strenuously against her friends or to have had the chip removed from his head, both of which were absolutely vital to the genersl story line of Season 7. Despite how strong Spike was, the main reason that he was able to resist total control by the First as well as endure the torture that he endured at the hands the Bringers and the Turok Han was four simple words. "She believes in me." And try to imagine a Spike still restrained by the chip defending himself from Robin Wood.

white avenger...you're forgetting the rules to this thread! 😉

You're not sopposed to think about the repercussions that would be caused by the deletion of the episode.

Despite its content, despite the pain, humiliation, and degradation that it represented, without "Seeing Red" the entire Buffy/Spike subplot of Season 7 would have been almost impossible. I don't like the episode as it stands alone, but within the ongoing story of Buffy and Spike, it is probably one of the most important episodes of the series.

Agreed, yet see above response.