Episode Deletion

[white avenger]

white avenger...you're forgetting the rules to this thread! 😉

You're not sopposed to think about the repercussions that would be caused by the deletion of the episode.


Agreed, yet see above response.

My apologies. It's a trait common with senior citizens that we do sometimes get lost in our own rhetoric to the point that the original question escapes us. Okay, then, no "Seeing Red." And also, no Angel's return is Season 3. Also, no accidental stabbing of the Assistant Mayor by Faith. (Let's toss the Fuffies a crumb, here)

 

[Flannen]

I'm with Kean on the 'so long' season six. Especially 'Grave', for several reasons I guess, but mainly for Spike getting soul back. It's one of the only storylines I really take issue with aside from the other obvious one.

Oh, and any scene in season seven where Buffy is horrible to Giles. It's too heartbreaking! 😛

 

[Kean]

I'm with Kean on the 'so long' season six. Especially 'Grave', for several reasons I guess, but mainly for Spike getting soul back. It's one of the only storylines I really take issue with aside from the other obvious one.

Oh, and any scene in season seven where Buffy is horrible to Giles. It's too heartbreaking! 😛

Agreed. Somehow I feel like Spike getting his soul back makes Seeing Red even worse. Buffy being the villian and Spike the victim, I'd like to wipe all of that out please! Also, the implosion of the Scoobies too. The entire season is just unbearable.

I think we should call do-over 😛

---------- Post added at 03:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:56 PM ----------

Oh, I'd also like for Connor to not be stolen, Cordy to remain as Cordy and for Angel Investigations to still be up and running.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Oh, I'd also like for Connor to not be stolen, Cordy to remain as Cordy and for Angel Investigations to still be up and running.

I totally agree with all of this, Kean. The whole Wes stealing Conner thing was just terrible, and what I like to call the 'butchering' of Cordy's character never ceases to upset me. And I think we can all agree that Angel choosing to take over w&H was a monumentally bad idea.

I'd also like to point out that however surprising this might be to some folks, I would rather that Spike hadn't been brought back in AtS. *dodges flying daggers*

Surprised by this? Let me explain.

I felt bringing Spike back was a dis-service his character on many levels; one being that IMO he's a more important character then just functioning as Angel's snarky "side-kick." Also, I feel many of his actions in AtS were out of character. For instance, it's totally unbelieveable to me why he wouldn't contact Buffy ASAP. (I know, I know why he didn't - plot-wise it made sense, his reappearance as a character was a condition of the show's final season, blah, blah - but still).

I would have rather we remembered Spike going out in a blaze of glory in 'Chosen', becoming a Champion, dying for the girl he loved - then what actually happened; him being brought back needlesly merely for fan-service. Plus, bringing him back as a Ghost was just lame.

That said,despite, I do love Angel and Spike's dynamic in AtSS5 and of course, the idea of a Spuffy reunion (no matter how slim) just tickles me pink. I love Spike so much that any screentime he gets is good in my book - I just wish it could have happened differently.

 

[xaphania]

I'd also like to point out that however surprising this might be to some folks, I would rather that Spike hadn't been brought back in AtS. *dodges flying daggers*

Surprised by this? Let me explain.

I felt bringing Spike back was a dis-service his character on many levels; one being that IMO he's a more important character then just functioning as Angel's snarky "side-kick." Also, I feel many of his actions in AtS were out of character. For instance, it's totally unbelieveable to me why he wouldn't contact Buffy ASAP. (I know, I know why he didn't - plot-wise it made sense, his reappearance as a character was a condition of the show's final season, blah, blah - but still).

I would have rather we remembered Spike going out in a blaze of glory in 'Chosen', becoming a Champion, dying for the girl he loved - then what actually happened; him being brought back needlesly merely for fan-service. Plus, bringing him back as a Ghost was just lame.

That said,despite, I do love Angel and Spike's dynamic in AtSS5 and of course, the idea of a Spuffy reunion (no matter how slim) just tickles me pink. I love Spike so much that any screentime he gets is good in my book - I just wish it could have happened differently.

I kind of agree with you here, on the one hand I'm glad Spike was back, but I didn't like the way they did it, not at all.

For one, I don't believe that Spike would have not at the very least called Buffy to tell her he was alive, and I think the in-show reason for him not doing that was so lame.

And after all his character-progression in BtVS, he kind of regressed here to the comic-relief sidekick.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

I agree with you in theory about bringing Spike back, JoantVS, but I was glad anyway. Season 5 was the best season of Angel and I think Spike's presence was a big part of that. He's just so much fun. So I wouldn't ACTUALLY change that, even though everything you said makes sense!

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I agree with you in theory about bringing Spike back, JoantVS, but I was glad anyway. Season 5 was the best season of Angel and I think Spike's presence was a big part of that. He's just so much fun. So I wouldn't ACTUALLY change that, even though everything you said makes sense!

I get what you're saying! It's a contridictory theory I know - both loving Spike's presence in the season but also having wished it hadn't happened.

Spike is a lot of fun. And he's even more fun with Angel around. 😉

I kind of agree with you here, on the one hand I'm glad Spike was back, but I didn't like the way they did it, not at all.

For one, I don't believe that Spike would have not at the very least called Buffy to tell her he was alive, and I think the in-show reason for him not doing that was so lame.

And after all his character-progression in BtVS, he kind of regressed here to the comic-relief sidekick.

I totally agree. Well said.

 

[anyatara]

I have two, both for obvious reasons. Hell's Bells and Chosen. (This is where my Anya obsession is proven). I've always just wished Hells Bells didn't occur; I honestly don't believe that's something Xander would do, I don't think it should ever have happened; and if they were never going to end up married, I think they should have at least stayed engaged longer (Say, to the end of season seven 😉). Although I do love the plotline to Hells Bells, it still annoys the Hell out of me. Xander and Anya belong together, eesh. Also, the ending of Hells Bells, when Anya gets her demon on again? I really didn't like that happening, either.

As for Chosen. Does it even need saying? Of my five favourite Buffyverse characters, two were killed. I didn't hate the episode, though I did hate the death's. Especially Anya's, it was barely even shown on screen. If they really had to kill her off, I think it should have at least been done in a more respectable, obvious way, rather than 'Oops, she's dead. Oh well, no-one's going to see her.' Yeah, thanks for that. (Clearly I have some issues with that scene 😉)

As for on Angel? Three words: Connor and Cordelia.

 

[Kana]

I agree with you in theory about bringing Spike back, JoantVS, but I was glad anyway. Season 5 was the best season of Angel and I think Spike's presence was a big part of that. He's just so much fun. So I wouldn't ACTUALLY change that, even though everything you said makes sense!

As an Angel purist I actually think Ats can stand on its own feet without Spike, however I did like how her brought out a different side to Angel. Also I definitely liked his speech in Shells about fighting by Angel's side because he believed in the fight. I thought it was a wonderful answer to his "I'm basically going to do what you want me to do, Buffy" attitude which made me want to say "God man, get some balls". He was beginning to take charge of his own betterment, on his own terms.

 

[Bluebird]

This is hard, I don't know what ep I'd delete. Although reading through some of the posts I can see why I'd like to have Spike stay soulless. I think it took something away from Angel, since he wasn't the only vampire with a soul anymore. Angel had his own show, I felt like he needed to be special in that way.

But then saying that, it would have meant no Angel and Spike together in Angel season 5. Tragedy!

 

[thevikingsgirl]

As for Chosen. Does it even need saying? Of my five favourite Buffyverse characters, two were killed. I didn't hate the episode, though I did hate the death's. Especially Anya's, it was barely even shown on screen. If they really had to kill her off, I think it should have at least been done in a more respectable, obvious way, rather than 'Oops, she's dead. Oh well, no-one's going to see her.' Yeah, thanks for that. (Clearly I have some issues with that scene 😉)

I so agree with you! If you blinked, you missed Anya's death. My first time I actually backed it up. I was like, 'What! NO! That did not just happen!" It was so fast, and then Xander was all, "That's my girl, always doing the stupid thing" and that was it. I think Anya deserved better than that.

 

[InsaneMystic]

If we really go for the "don't mind the repercussions" thing, then I agree with WA that Angel's return in Buffy's S3 should have definitely been left out.

 

[BillyidolwannaB]

No repercussions thing: No Angel return, No Spike chip, No Kennedys face, No knox either, No dwillow. Sorry, cant think of a episode i'd leave out.
In reality though i wouldnt change a thing.

 

[Kitten Poker]

I agree with InsaneMystic, apart from needing to lead up to the spin-off I thought bringing Angel back in season 3 was totally pointless. It just seemed like an excuse to show DB topless a lot, which in itself was no bad thing but kind of unnecessary to the plot.

I would also have had Xander and Anya marry and more being made of Anya's death (I too had to rewind to make sure I'd seen it).

A lot of people seem to be saying "do away with season 6" but I actually thought the darker tone was very necessary. They had to grow up and go to those places imho. If I could do away with any season it would be 4. Riley? Meh. Adam? meh. The whole idea of the Initiative? Kind of dull. If Spike's character was going to show humanity without his soul (as it did) I don't think they needed the excuse of a chip in his head to do it.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

It would be interesting to see how they might have made Spike and Buffy be together enough to have some of the same developments, without the chip, since the chip was the only reason they didn't try to kill each other on sight.

 

[Kelsey]

I agree, Joan, that I like really liked Spike's sacrifice. But I have to admit, I want my Spike alive! Even if it may have cheapened his sacrifice (although I don't think it really did--he was still willing to die, right?) I confess that I was so happy to see my favorite character back in the 'verse, I didn't care. I will always choose an undead Spike to a dead one, even if it was a little contrived.

As for Seeing Red, I don't think I'd take it out necessarily because I don't agree with what it was trying to do. Spike needed something that would wake him up and push him even further down the road to redemption. However, I hated how that scene was handled. It didn't fit their characters (and I know at least one person always argues with, "But it fit's Spike's!" but I just truly believe it doesn't), and it didn't fit their overall relationship. Plus, I didn't like the way rape was used within the storyline, period. It was just a bad decision, in my opinion.

 

[Kitten Poker]

It would be interesting to see how they might have made Spike and Buffy be together enough to have some of the same developments, without the chip, since the chip was the only reason they didn't try to kill each other on sight.

Hmm, I'm not convinced it was the only reason.... they'd fought several times before and it had ended in stalemate, she always seemed somehow to let him get away. And Spike realised he was in love with her before the chip, I think? As far as I recall, anyway.....

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I agree, Joan, that I like really liked Spike's sacrifice. But I have to admit, I want my Spike alive! Even if it may have cheapened his sacrifice (although I don't think it really did--he was still willing to die, right?) I confess that I was so happy to see my favorite character back in the 'verse, I didn't care. I will always choose an undead Spike to a dead one, even if it was a little contrived.

You said it far better then I could, Kelsey.

 

[Kitten Poker]

Oh, and another thing. After Spike finished being mad he should never have redyed his hair 😀 Just a personal opinion. What was it JM described it as, the N-Sync look? Amusing.

 

[Kean]

I totally agree with all of this, Kean. The whole Wes stealing Conner thing was just terrible, and what I like to call the 'butchering' of Cordy's character never ceases to upset me. And I think we can all agree that Angel choosing to take over w&H was a monumentally bad idea.

I'd also like to point out that however surprising this might be to some folks, I would rather that Spike hadn't been brought back in AtS. *dodges flying daggers*

Surprised by this? Let me explain.

I felt bringing Spike back was a dis-service his character on many levels; one being that IMO he's a more important character then just functioning as Angel's snarky "side-kick." Also, I feel many of his actions in AtS were out of character. For instance, it's totally unbelieveable to me why he wouldn't contact Buffy ASAP. (I know, I know why he didn't - plot-wise it made sense, his reappearance as a character was a condition of the show's final season, blah, blah - but still).

I would have rather we remembered Spike going out in a blaze of glory in 'Chosen', becoming a Champion, dying for the girl he loved - then what actually happened; him being brought back needlesly merely for fan-service. Plus, bringing him back as a Ghost was just lame.

That said,despite, I do love Angel and Spike's dynamic in AtSS5 and of course, the idea of a Spuffy reunion (no matter how slim) just tickles me pink. I love Spike so much that any screentime he gets is good in my book - I just wish it could have happened differently.

I think I feel the same way about Buffy's ressurection. She is my favourite character on my favourite show but sometimes I think I would have been happier in the long run if Buffy had ended with The Gift. While I will never really regret getting my fav show back I do regret that it came back in a way that I feel cheapens what went before it. When all comes to all there isn't much of S6 or 7 that I would miss.