Episode Deletion

[white avenger]

But I have to admit, I want my Spike alive! Even if it may have cheapened his sacrifice (although I don't think it really did--he was still willing to die, right?) I confess that I was so happy to see my favorite character back in the 'verse, I didn't care. I will always choose an undead Spike to a dead one, even if it was a little contrived.

I agree, Spike on "Angel" is better than no spike at all, but I would really have loved for the final scene in "Chosen" to have been Buffy looking at Spike, smiling, and asking, "Wanta help me build an army?" Then her arms go up around his neck, she pulls him closer, and just as their lips meet...fade to black. Now THAT would have been a scene almost worth losing Spike a year early for.

It would have had Bangels all over the world going into apoplexy.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I would have taken out the scene in Season 5 where Buffy is killing the Snake Glory sent to find Dawn, because it was so stupid looking!

I would take out the scene at the end of Beneath You in S7 where Spike runs off and Buffy follows him and they blabber on for ages (I actually normally turn it off just before then anyway) I always felt that didn't fit in there.

I definitely would have taken out the scene were Spike and Buffy had sex at the Bronze while they were watching her friends, that was horrible, and think they took Buffy way to low at that point!! (and thats not about it being Spike, if it had been anyone it still would be gross!)

I would have taken out that episode where they went back down into the initiative in Season 7, they filled in it with concrete, how where they still able to get back inside??

Also would delete beljoxes (sp?) eye, that thing was fugly and stoopid!

And Buffy telling Spike she loved him at the end, (lying is wrong.)

 

[white avenger]

I would have taken out the scene in Season 5 where Buffy is killing the Snake Glory sent to find Dawn, because it was so stupid looking!

I would take out the scene at the end of Beneath You in S7 where Spike runs off and Buffy follows him and they blabber on for ages (I actually normally turn it off just before then anyway) I always felt that didn't fit in there.

I definitely would have taken out the scene were Spike and Buffy had sex at the Bronze while they were watching her friends, that was horrible, and think they took Buffy way to low at that point!! (and thats not about it being Spike, if it had been anyone it still would be gross!)

I would have taken out that episode where they went back down into the initiative in Season 7, they filled in it with concrete, how where they still able to get back inside??

Also would delete beljoxes (sp?) eye, that thing was fugly and stoopid!

And Buffy telling Spike she loved him at the end, (lying is wrong.)

Glory's snake was definitely CGI at its dead level worst. It looked like something Ray Hareusen would have used back in the 60's.

Botox's eye looks like a demonic pinata.

The sex in the Bronze definitely could have been done a whole lot differently of eliminated altogether (What, you thought that I would disagree?)

As for the scene in "Beneath You," there HAD to be a way for Buffy to find out about Spike's soul, and he obviously wasn't going to tell her himself.

As for filling in the Initiative base with concrete, I think that was more of a rhetorical statement than an actual plan. There's just no way that that much concrete could be poured inth Initiative Base without attracting huge amounts of attention.

As for any lying taking place down in the hellmouth, that's the single biggest thorn in the side of all Bangels, and speaking for Spuffies everywhere...nah, there are kids present. Keep your fantasies, pal. We know the truth.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

As for the scene in "Beneath You," there HAD to be a way for Buffy to find out about Spike's soul, and he obviously wasn't going to tell her himself.

I probably should have been more specific, I thought the acting was spot on, and I know the scene was needed. But It felt very out of whack with the rest of the episode, which kinda had a goofey feel to it, I just didn't think the scene fitted there (so maybe not deleted but moved)

As for any lying taking place down in the hellmouth, that's the single biggest thorn in the side of all Bangels, and speaking for Spuffies everywhere...nah, there are kids present. Keep your fantasies, pal. We know the truth.

It's not a thorn in Bangels sides at all, it is the exact opposite. She was being nice, lied and he knew it. What could be more joyous to a Bangel, knowing that Buffy is such a nice person that she would lie to Spike in what she thought his last moment, and that she was now feel free to move onto baking cookies!

 

[Wishing Oceans]

I would DEFINITELY get rid of that hideous blue muscle shirt Spike was wearing in Beneath You. 😀

And Buffy telling Spike she loved him at the end, (lying is wrong.)

I think that's the craziest thing I've heard all day. 😀 Here, check out my thread (Spuffy S7: Friends or Lovers? - Buffy-Boards). If you read the whole thing, you can find out why you're wrong, wrong, WRONG without me having to go nitpick out all the facts. 😀

 

[thevikingsgirl]

No way. She was so NOT lying. 😛

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Man you Spuffies are a bit touchy over Spike telling her she didn't love him.

The thread is about what we'd delete and I'd delete that, because im not a fan of lying. If you wanna start that discussion thats for another thread!

 

[Wishing Oceans]

Man you Spuffies are a bit touchy over Spike telling her she didn't love him.

The thread is about what we'd delete and I'd delete that, because im not a fan of lying. If you wanna start that discussion thats for another thread!

Haha sorry, I may sometimes get a bit passionately defensive... 😀 But still, how would you react if someone said that every time Buffy and Angel said they loved each other they were lying? 😀

I would also delete Tara's overly "witchy" dresses. Those were way too 1800's. 😀

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Haha sorry, I may sometimes get a bit passionately defensive... 😀 But still, how would you react if someone said that every time Buffy and Angel said they loved each other they were lying? 😀

I wouldn't have to get defensive, I have the truth on my side.
(Although, funny you mention that because I have no recollection of anyone every saying Buffy and Angel lyed when they say I love You" - Interesting that!)

🙂

Kelsey agrees: You're baiting on purpose. =P

I know, and I knew as I was writing, but I couldn't help it 🙂

 

[Kitten Poker]

A fair few people seem to be against the sex scene in The Bronze. OK so it was kind of shoving the issue down our throats and technically it may have been kind of difficult unless Buffy was standing on a step or it was Jonathon (just sayin').

BUT the dialogue was interesting. Spike was basically saying "You were never anything like these people, you were always alone, and you're even less like them now than you ever were. Look at what you'll do, look at the secrets you're keeping from them." I thought what he said was actually a good summary of Buffy's predicament in the series so far

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

A fair few people seem to be against the sex scene in The Bronze. OK so it was kind of shoving the issue down our throats and technically it may have been kind of difficult unless Buffy was standing on a step or it was Jonathon (just sayin').

BUT the dialogue was interesting. Spike was basically saying "You were never anything like these people, you were always alone, and you're even less like them now than you ever were. Look at what you'll do, look at the secrets you're keeping from them." I thought what he said was actually a good summary of Buffy's predicament in the series so far

You know, the dialogue is part why I hate that scene so much. Buffy always wanted to be someone, not just the Slayer, she wanted to fit somewhere, to belong with someone. She found this awesome friends, Willow and Xander, who were there for here most of the times, they did mistakes, but that's normal, and they put it in the past. And then he told her that she was always alone, and she wasn't. Like he wanted her to suffer, or he was to selfish, so he wanted to convince her that he is only there for here, no one other. They wanted to help her, all of them, they had good agenda, but with that kind of words, he was just pushing her away. But in the other side, I understand him too, to love someone who doesn't love you, he wanted her so much, but love shouldn't be selfish. You can't make someone to be with you.

 

[Wild At Heart]

Beer Bad & any episodes with Parker.
Also Judgement from s2 of Angel because even though Faith had to achieve her redemption for what she'd done, let's face it, I could've used seeing her much, much more. She would've been a great addition to the cast for the rest of the series. She could've come back to LA after s7 of Buffy to be in s5 of Angel. I can dream.

 

[Eleftheria]

Seeing Red is out according to my opinion...cause yeah like it is already mentioned it was the right time for the Slayer to wake up in Buffy's soul and dust Spike. And thanks to the amazing performance by both actors the scene was more than scary.

Dead things for sure...cause again according to my opinion Buffy is totally out of character...the whole show is out of character there...

Strangely, I wouldn't delete the "I love you" from Buffy to Spike but to me it symbolises sth different than spuffies think.

And although season 5 of Angel is amazing with Spike in,the interaction between Angel and Spike is great, I myself would have preferred that Spike stayed dead,as a hero, saving the world...

 

[InsaneMystic]

(Although, funny you mention that because I have no recollection of anyone every saying Buffy and Angel lyed when they say I love You" - Interesting that!)

Hey, I've argued before that I'm doubtful if Bangel is really love, but instead - in the words of Giles - "silly, childish obsession". 😛 That won't make them liars saying ILY to each other, but it would make them mistaken about their feelings. People high on romantic hormones tend to lose grip on reality, you know. (And yes, speaking from experience here. I hate romance and what it does to people's minds.)

Look at it this way: Exhibit A is a clinical depressive trying to draw hope and meaning for his messed up wreck of a life out of a relationship with exhibit B, who, in turn mostly acts motivated by an immature hormonal crush. Actually, Season Six Spuffy is a mirror image of Bangel, with sex added in the mix due to Buffy being some years older now, and a darker, grittier, more realistic overtone. We may now have Buffy in Angel's role and Spike in Highschool Buffy's, but otherwise, "plus ca change...".

In any case, I see more love between Spike and Buffy in S7 (note: not S6) than I ever saw between her and Angel, who, as Spike artfully analyzed way back in "Lover's Walk", aren't, never were and never will be friends. Compare that to S7 Spuffy (anyone who argues they're not friends, indeed, must have seen a very different show than me 😛 ), and you'll easily see how disappointingly lacking in substance Bangel is compared to the true, hard earned love of Spuffy.

I'm just sad that there's enough residual romantic delusion left in Buffy to "say hello" to Angel the way they did in "Chosen". I don't like that scene because it's so immature and cheapens both their characters, but I guess Joss felt it necessary to mix in some blatant fan service to stop the Bangels from protesting. As for me, it's no secret that I think "Chosen" would have been better off without Angel's cameo... but then, the same is true about just about every Bangel scene past "Becoming II". 😉

But who knows, maybe Buffy didn't mean the whole cookie dough thing and just made a friendly lie to Angel to be nice and not hurt his feelings. After all, he earned that much of a "thank you for your effort", being a hero and all, and it was likely to be the last time they'd see each other alive. (And I'm only being halfway ironic here - as that reading does make more sense to me than thinking she lied to Spike in the Hellmouth. 😛 )

 

[InsaneMystic]

Kean agrees: If you believe that B/A were never in love then it makes me wonder if you have watched a very different show then me.

As I said, they most definitely had a romantic obsession with each other. Nobody, including me, is doubting that. This state of emotion has been called love, indeed "a forever love" millions of times by millions of people in the same situation. (Me, too, btw. I had such a "forever love" at the age of 17. Lasted roundabout 3 months in my case - sadly, much, much longer than 3 months in Bangel's case, if we go by "Chosen". Enough to even distract Buffy from the considerably healthier relationship she had with Spike at the time. 😉 )

It really depends on what you call "being in love". If you (which I assume you do) have a much more positive opinion about the whole romance concept than I do, you're of course free to call Bangel "being in love", but allow me to remain skeptical as to whether it was "truly" love or not. 🙂

 

[Kean]

As I said, they most definitely had a romantic obsession with each other. Nobody, including me, is doubting that. This state of emotion has been called love, indeed "a forever love" millions of times by millions of people in the same situation. (Me, too, btw. I had such a "forever love" at the age of 17. Lasted roundabout 3 months in my case - sadly, much, much longer than 3 months in Bangel's case, if we go by "Chosen". Enough to even distract Buffy from the considerably healthier relationship she had with Spike at the time. 😉 )

It really depends on what you call "being in love". If you (which I assume you do) have a much more positive opinion about the whole romance concept than I do, you're of course free to call Bangel "being in love", but allow me to remain skeptical as to whether it was "truly" love or not. 🙂

Oh, I think you are absolutely barking, raving mad but I'd never try and deter your skepticism 😉 😛

Although I will say that I think the likelihood of Buffy lying to Angel in that graveyard is zilch simply because she had absolutely no reason at all "to let him down gently", he was walking away. The conversation was over. She called him back and told that sometimes she does think of him and a future. She wanted him to know that, to be thinking about that.

We won't fight over that though, I'm fairly sure we are both too pig headed to budge 🙂

 

[white avenger]

Although I will say that I think the likelihood of Buffy lying to Angel in that graveyard is zilch simply because she had absolutely no reason at all "to let him down gently", he was walking away. The conversation was over.

But wouldn't that same logic apply to Spike when she told him that he loved him? He was doing a lot more than just walking away, and they both knew it. She would have no reason to lie to him at such a moment, to either "let him down gently," or to allow him to die happily, believing a lie. And what she told him, "I love you," is exactly the same thing that she told Angel, on more than a few occasions. Not "I'm IN LOVE WITH you," but simply "I love you." And yes, she DID tell Angel that she was "in love" with him on several occasions, but that only serves to illustrate that the two phrases, in the context that they were delivered, (before you point out that she also said that she loved Giles, Xander, Willow, and Dawn) meant exactly the same thing. Therefore, what she meant there in the hellmouth wasn't just another way of telling Spike that she considered him one of, if not her best friends, but that she was, absolutely and without a doubt, in love with him.

 

[Eleftheria]

InsaneMystic if you think Bangel is childish and believe that Spuffy is more meaningul/serious/more loving than Bangel then seriously you must have watched another show.As for the sex...you know I had this idea lately...Buffy and Angel want each other so much(Buffy was willing to live the rest of her life with him even if she couldn't make love with him) and they love each other even if they made love just once.So this is mental and soul connection. Spuffy on the other hand was mostly based on sex.Thay started that way and they hated themselves for it.

Just take a look at Buffy's face before she kisses Angel...did you see it? She drops the Scythe, the world disappears for her and she just wants to kiss him. As for the cookie dough analogy...if she didn't want to give him hope she wouldn't. She would have stopped talking and Angel would disappear in the dark.
So, do you really think that Buffy just had a crush on Angel? ok then this should end after "Angel" when she discovers that he is a vampire.But no, she feels much more, she knows he is a dark type of guy,but he has a soul and he uses it for good,to redeem himself,to help her.

In season 7 Spike and Buffy are friends. They both behaved in the wrong way,they both acted violently in season 6.They gained pleasure from each other but in a dark way. And in season 7, that Buffy is fully recovered from her "i wanna feel something" phase I certainly do not think she sees Spike as a sex toy anymore or romantically. She certainly felt flattered that spike wanted her so much but other than that there is no emotional connection.

 

[white avenger]

Kean agrees: I have NEVER, not once, said that Buffy was lying when she told Spike she loved him in Chosen. What I have done si questioned the nature of that love, but I have never denied it.

And I never once denied that Buffy meant it when she told Angel that she loved him. I merely said that the same statement, delivered to two men who she had genuine feelings for, meant exactly the same thing. If she didn't have to qualify what she meant when she told Angel, she shouldn't have to qualify it when she says it to Spike. "I live you," and "I am in love with you," in that instance, meant exactly and precisely the same thing. So Buffy was just as in love with Spike as she ever was with Angel.

 

[Kean]

So Buffy was just as in love with Spike as she ever was with Angel.

Where the hell did you pull that one out of? Even if that was the case, which we have been told a couple of times already in S8 that it isn't, how can you back up a statement like that?

There is absolutely no canonical evidence to support that argument. Angel asked Buffy straight out if she was in love with Spike and her reply was that "he is in my heart". That hardly translates into I love him just as much as I love you.

Furthermore, she already said during that season that she loved Angel more than she would ever love anything in her life. She didn't say she would never love again but she would never love anyone as she much as she loved him.

I don't buyyour theory for a second old man!