Even People Who Know Better Fall for Lies

Skanky Vamp

Sniffin' the Slayer
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Black Thorn
Very interesting article from Science of Us

The claim that “thousands” of Muslims in New Jersey celebrated after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, has been disputed many times, and yet this hasn’t stopped Donald Trump from repeating it. Just this weekend on Meet the Press, Trump said: "I saw it on television. So did many other people. … And many people saw it in person. I've had hundreds of phone calls to the Trump Organization saying, 'We saw it. It was dancing in the streets.’ I’m not going to take it back.”

And maybe you have even read the many articles debunking this claim, but there’s still a problem here: If a statement is repeated often enough, it has a funny way of starting to seem true. This is something researchers call the illusory truth effect, first identified in 1977 by scientists from Villanova University and Temple University and since then replicated in many more recent studies, inside and outside the lab.

It had been largely assumed, however, that this would really only work for subjects in which people had no prior knowledge — that is, you can’t trick someone into believing, say, the largest ocean on Earth is the Atlantic when they know it's actually the Pacific. But, to the contrary, a recent paper published in the Journal of Experimental Psychology found that the illusory truth effect even applies to those who really should know better.

In one experiment, researchers — led by Lisa Fazio of Vanderbilt University — asked a group of undergrads to read through a list of sentences, some of which were obviously true, some of which were obviously false, and others that were trickier. For example: “The Pacific Ocean is the largest ocean on Earth.” (True.) “A date is a dried plum.” (False.) “Oslo is the capital of Finland.” (Also false, but depending on your knowledge of world capitals, perhaps not obviously so.) Next, the students were given another set of statements, but this time, they were to rank each one on a scale of 1 to 6, with 1 meaning definitely false and 6 meaning definitely true. And last, they answered multiple-choice questions that corresponded to the statements they’d just read.

Over at Pacific Standard, writer Tom Jacobs breaks down their results:

The researchers found that repeated falsehoods were more likely to be accepted as accurate, "regardless of whether stored knowledge could have been used to direct a contradiction." To put it more bluntly: “Repetition increased perceived truthfulness, even for contradictions of well-known facts. … Reading a statement like 'A sari is the name of the short plaid skirt worn by Scots' increased participants' later belief that it was true," Fazio and her colleagues write, "even if they could correctly answer the question 'What is the name of the short pleated skirt worn by Scots?'"

Fazio and her colleagues replicated this finding in a second experiment, and in their paper, they nod to research done by others that has pointed at a potential reason why. “Recent work suggests that the ease with which people comprehend statements (i.e. processing fluency) underlies the illusory truth effect,” they write. “Repetition makes statements easier to process (i.e. fluent) relative to new statements, leading people to the (sometimes) false conclusion that they are more truthful.” In an email to Science of Us, Fazio agreed that these results may very well apply to statements made by politicians, who, after a while, may even begin to believe themselves. “Trump is likely to believe the claim because he's heard it so often, and the public is likely to start to believe it because Trump keeps repeating it,” Fazio said.

In short, MTP host Chuck Todd summed it up nicely on Sunday: “Your words matter. Truthfulness matters. Fact-based stuff matters." Indeed it does.​
 
I'm no Trump fan, but it's not only he that does this. Plenty of politicians do it.
 
Skanky Vamp
Skanky Vamp
No, I don't know why the singled out Trump, but the I thought the test, etc, were the interesting part. The Trump just seemed to give the whole thing a particular slant.
This was one of the things people said about Adolph Hitler - he repeated things often enough that his lies were accepted as truth. I am a bit leery about how research like this is going to empower future demagogues.
 
Is it the American media or the American government who employ people to spot the lies told by all the presidential hopefuls. Just think if it was added, to the declaration the incoming President has to make, to tell the truth.

I wonder when it will get told if D. Trump becomes President that the first lady will be the first one to have appeared naked on a magazine cover.
How many countries will refuse him entry on the grounds of promoting religious and racial hatred.
 
The Big Lie - it's been used in politics since forever, and it still works scarily well

Big lie

The big lie is a propaganda technique coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf. Hitler asserted the technique was used by Jews to unfairly blame Germany's loss in World War I on German Army officer Erich Ludendorff.

It's usage is where a known falsehood is stated and repeated and treated as if it is self-evidently true in hopes of swaying the course of an argument in a direction that takes the big lie for granted rather than critically questioning it or ignoring it. Well-known forms of the big lie include Hitler's use of anti-Semitism in Nazi propaganda (blaming Jews for all of Germany's problems), communist propaganda blaming the "bourgeoisie" for all workers' problems, the frequent demonizing of the left-wing as communist and of the right-wing as fascist, religious fundamentalist claims of persecution, the Roman Catholic Church's claims that the clergy sex abuse scandal was a problem of liberal churches, and denial of Ken Ham's complicity in acts of piglet rape.[1]

As a general rule, the most effective big lies are outrageous enough to be unbelievable, yet appeal strongly to the prejudices of the listeners and are stated in as bland and matter-of-fact terms as possible. It is sometimes even more effective to string several big lies together in a series of talking points.

The source for the expression comes from the passage in Chapter 10 in Mein Kampf:

“”But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute responsibility for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the catastrophe which he had foreseen and to save the nation from that hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsibility for the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the Fatherland to Justice. All this was inspired by the principle—which is quite true within itself—that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.

Big lie - RationalWiki

BTW - this is not an American problem - this is a worldwide problem. Anyone sitting in a comfy chair and saying tsk-tsk to Trump or America is willfully ignoring that fact. Yeah, Trump is a ringmaster - which may well not work in his favor. But look at GW Bush and the invasion of Iraq, look at all the countries that supported him because he managed to create his own Big Lie - the idea that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11.
 
Oh damn, I should never have posted this. It's not about politics, it's about people. Everyone is following the initial mention of politics and following suite. For me it's more about marketing. The iPhone seems like it benefits big from this. How many times have you heard how great the iPhone is? Joss Whedon benefits from this. How many times have you heard Joss is this brilliant nerd-genius feminist?

It's virtually everything in our culture now, especially with social media being so influential in our lives. You see a few dozen tweets telling you the sky is green and grass is blue, sooner or later, according to this, you will start to believe it. It's not about politics.
 
Yes, people are sheep & believe whatever the media tell them, even if it's wrong.
But that's the thing, it wasn't even that it was people you would 'assume' would be sheep. These were undergrades that should have known better.
 
The claim that “thousands” of Muslims in New Jersey celebrated after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, has been disputed many times, and yet this hasn’t stopped Donald Trump from repeating it.

That can be grouped with the other "facts" that we hear every day

All dog attacks involve pit bulldogs.
All mass murders involve assault rifles.
Whenever there's an automobile accident, it's the intoxicated driver who caused it.
All political conservatives are gun loving, Bible thumping, fanatics.
All political liberals are tree hugging, bleeding heart, fanatics.
and so on.

A lot of this misinformation comes from the very people whose responsibility it SHOULD be to get the story straight: the news media. It's easier to put things into nice, neat packages, like pit bulldogs, assault rifles, and drunk drivers rather than take the time to actually do something as unnecessary as actually reporting the facts.

The late, great Will Rogers was famous for his comment, "All I know is what I read in the newspapers." If he were alive today, he would be a very misinformed man.
 
But that's the thing, it wasn't even that it was people you would 'assume' would be sheep. These were undergrades that should have known better.

Should have known better... they're still people. They still have human brains... “Repetition makes statements easier to process (i.e. fluent) relative to new statements, leading people to the (sometimes) false conclusion that they are more truthful.” Having a higher degree, or a higher intellect, doesn't make you fool proof from the pitfalls of the human mind and how it processes information/fails to check it when it's easier not to (not everyone obviously, but a lot of accomplished people are just as likely to have lazy "system 2" as Daniel Kahneman would say.) Repetition gets to most of us, in one way or another.
 
Should have known better... they're still people. They still have human brains... “Repetition makes statements easier to process (i.e. fluent) relative to new statements, leading people to the (sometimes) false conclusion that they are more truthful.” Having a higher degree, or a higher intellect, doesn't make you fool proof from the pitfalls of the human mind and how it processes information/fails to check it when it's easier not to (not everyone obviously, but a lot of accomplished people are just as likely to have lazy "system 2" as Daniel Kahneman would say.) Repetition gets to most of us, in one way or another.
I understand that certainly for things you dont know or are not sure of, but I still cant believe that if you know, for example Pacific is the largest ocean, I don't see how just repetition could alter that.
 
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