'evilness' in buffy

[safetydance]

the master and the vampires are the evils in buffy but who agrees cordelia is evil too?

 

[partofyourworld]

Im not sure wether evil is the right word... shes just like all the popular bitchy girls at any school...exept that they usual avoid you and ignore you. Shes mean but really, We all love her
Though, thinking safetydancers way, you got to be crazy if cordy being evil never crossed your mind

 

[VisionGuy]

Cordy wasn't evil. She was just mean and bitchy. Buffy acted like her before she became the slayer. That doesn't mean Buffy was evil does it? Although I'm sure most of Cordy's classmates thought she was evil too. LOL

 

[StuckinTraffic]

Cordy wasn't evil, she was just Queen C. "Off with their heads!" I'm sure the Cordelia Haters Club thought she was evil, but really, she was just playing a role, as evidenced by the "I can be in a room full of people and be totally alone," statement. We all wear a mask.

 

[nerd4hire]

Cordelia was a "Mean Girl" for a bit, but never evil.

Are humans ever really evil in the Buffyverse, or just misdirected. Was Faith, or did she just make a choice to try to be? Is doing evil the same thing as being evil? Even the Mayor had redeeming character traits. He had fatherly affection for Faith and stood by his wife to watch her grow old and die.

Is any Buffy character of the human variety truly evil? Well, maybe Snyder. 😉

 

[Rowan Hawthorn]

In my opinion, Mayor Wilkins, Caleb, Catherine Madison, Gwendolyn Post, and Warren Mears all qualify as Evil, while Cordelia, the Deputy Mayor, Jonathon, and Andrew were just misguided. I would argue that everyone does Bad Things on occasion, but a deliberate choice to engage in a consistent pattern of behavior intended to be destructive to other people with no conscience or concern pretty much puts them in the "Evil" column without any quibbling. Lots of real-life monsters have had some redeeming traits, but that really doesn't make up for the evil they've done. I don't think "Evil" requires a lack of human blood, just a lack of humanity.

And that's the thing that lets Faith out of the "Evil" list for me. Faith was obviously disturbed, and, whether she wanted to admit it or not, killing the Assistant Mayor did bother her. She did lots of Bad Things (and, personally, putting myself in the place of the Scoobies, I'd have put her away long before Buffy tried. Yeah, she proved redeemable, but how much damage should you allow a person to do while waiting for them to show it?) but, in the end, her conscience broke her down.

 

[nerd4hire]

Okay, now you've got me actually thinking, and yeah I get your point, and pretty much agree, but I wonder about something. In the Buffyverse can there be a predisposition to evil? Is there such a thing as a dark soul? And if there is, is that what makes one truly evil, or is it simply the consistency of evil behavior creating a dark soul? Or is it a combination of both.

If we look at Harmony, even vampirism doesn't turn her truly dark. Yet Angelus is completely black. Was there some core, good and evil battle at Angel's essence in which evil held a sway not present at Harmony's? If so then Angel could make the choice, but Harmony not so much, because the essence of evil just wasn't truly there at a core position of significant strength.

Do you need 3 things to be an evil human in the Buffyverse. A core propensity to do evil, a choice to do it, and an active and consistent behavior of doing it.

 

[safetydance]

but say if buffy was a normal drama without the vampires would cordelia still be evil inthat sense or just mean?

 

[Rowan Hawthorn]

Okay, now you've got me actually thinking, and yeah I get your point, and pretty much agree, but I wonder about something. In the Buffyverse can there be a predisposition to evil? Is there such a thing as a dark soul? And if there is, is that what makes one truly evil, or is it simply the consistency of evil behavior creating a dark soul? Or is it a combination of both.

I'm probably the wrong person to ask that question of. It's long been my contention that some people even in the Real World are simply "born bad." There's something not wired just right inside their brains, they are what they are, and all the opportunities in the world to change would be wasted on them. I say this having known a couple of those people; they were complete wastes of oxygen by the time they were six years old, and never changed until the day they crossed the wrong person. :gun: Lots of people are simply - well, call it "Opportunistically Bad": if the opportunity presents itself to, say, steal a few bucks, they'll take it. Those who are "born bad" actively look for ways to hurt other people whether they gain anything by it or not. Gain is just the icing on the cake (of course, most of them seem to feel that they've gained something simply by the act of harming someone else.) I'm not sure how much their "soul" has to do with it, or even if they have such a thing - assuming that there is such a thing. And, of course, then we have to wonder how many times they may have restrained themselves from acting for fear of getting caught (or, in my part of the world, shot by one of their prospective victims... :nopity🙂 In that case, they haven't actually done anything, but there wasn't any sort of care for other people stopping them, so does that make them rank any lower on the scale of Bad?

All of that could apply as easily to the Buffyverse as to the real one.

If we look at Harmony, even vampirism doesn't turn her truly dark. Yet Angelus is completely black. Was there some core, good and evil battle at Angel's essence in which evil held a sway not present at Harmony's? If so then Angel could make the choice, but Harmony not so much, because the essence of evil just wasn't truly there at a core position of significant strength.

I suspect that has a lot to do with what Darla said: "What we once were informs all that we have become." Harmony was basically a weak personality; needing to belong, needing the approval of her clique. Not particularly Bad, or even malicious, except in a childish, immature manner.

Do you need 3 things to be an evil human in the Buffyverse. A core propensity to do evil, a choice to do it, and an active and consistent behavior of doing it.

That strikes me as about the way it works in the Real World, too. Take a look at serial killers like Ted Bundy: almost without exception, once these people are caught, years of behavior patterns emerge that no-one suspected or caught onto.