Expanded Universe: Star Wars vs the Buffyverse

  • Thread starter Thread starter Allycat
  • Start date Start date
A

Allycat

Guest
This thread is NOT about which is the better!!!

Over in the thread about " Joss on the Future of Season 8 - Page 2 - Buffy-Boards " we've been sort of getting off topic and discussing which fanbase could sustains a larger Expanded Universe... so, as to not hijack the other thread: here it is:

Which fanbase could sustain a larger Expanded Universe: Star Wars or the Buffyverse?
 
I can work with this one from the other thread better.

I don't think that the Buffyverse has the potential to sustain such a large Expanded Universe as Star Wars for instance.
Click to expand...

There are 2 ways to look at that. At face value it seems to imply the Star Wars universe is physically larger, and therefore has more potential for growth.

That's only true until you think about it. The Buffyverse contains infinite times and dimensions. Everything from the Old Ones, to Fray, to the periods and stories from the history of the slayer line. Vahla Ha'nesh, to Pylea, to the demon dimension of Vrill and Boluz. At least hundreds of background characters whose larger stories have only been teased at from Urkon, to Drogyn, to Illyria. New ones are coming everytime the Buffyverse expands. It is expanding at present in the comics. I think we should remember the Marvelverse began with a few titles. How does that one compare to Starwars as far as what's grown out of it? We are talking potential for growth here, right?

The other way to look at it is from the aspect of depth and complexity already within the story. From such, many stories can be spun. Looking at it from there Buffy kicks Star wars ass.

Then there's the mythology. The mythology of Star Wars is done. They haven't even scratched the surface of Buffyverse mythology. It's deeper, and requires more explanation. There are deep rooted philosophical mysteries buried within Buffy you don't find in the cardboard "use the force Luke" religion of Star Wars.
 
Can we also look at it from a characters stand point? I mean, I am a bit confused but, what if Characters branched out (giving us more shows). Wouldn't we think that the single characters from Buffy would be able to hold a show more so than them star wars ones?

Don't bash me. I am all very confused. I like what N4H said. I can't come up with anything that intelligent right now.
 
TabulaRasa, I would think you're right if I understand you correctly. I think that Buffy and Angel have a lot of great characters who could hold a show on their own. Which would of course mean, more of the buffyverse spread out. Faith could, I think Illyria could. Buffy and Angel had their own, Spike could. Atleast I think they could. We never know what would really work until it happens.

I am going to say the Buffyverse over SW.
 
T
TabulaRasa
Yes that's what I was talking about. :)
This topic is just too huge! I honestly don't know that much about Star Wars, maybe I shouldn't be in this thread. But I guess I've seen all the flicks at this point.

The further Buffy gets from small-scale, earthbound stories ("our" dimension), the less interesting I find it to be, in general. But yeah, the advantage the Buffyverse has (at this point) is how vague, mushy and mysterious its mythology/history actually is. And they could continue to invent more otherworldy dimensions indefinitely.

Buffy/Angel had so many different writers, with varying ideas about human nature, morality, relationships...that adds to the complexity. To me, the Star Wars characters are simpler...more like archetypes than actual people at times. It seems like it's been more carefully controlled, filtered through the mind of Lucas (borrowing ideas about myth from Joseph Campbell and elsewhere, right?).

It's apples and oranges to a degree, cos it's movies vs TV. Maybe Star Wars books have really fleshed out characters a lot more, no idea.

Also, there's a whole extra layer of self-awarenes, humor, irony, pop culture goofiness running through the Buffyverse. Whether or not that means it's got more room to grow, not sure. Star Wars was lifting from Buck Rogers serials and Samurai movies...but there's not really much irony or winking at the audience...doesn't seem like.
 
Hmm. I'm not sure I can compare the two. Star Wars happens to be my all time favorite movie/series (the original three) and George Lucas is a personal hero. I've read several of the books based on the series (there's a really good set that explains Han Solo's back story that I loved).

Star Wars has already gone back in time, forward in time (with the books that tell about what happened after Return of the Jedi) etc. Not saying Buffy hasn't or couldn't. I see a lot of potential for the Buffyverse, especially since season 8 came out. I've actually imagined a few Buffyverse of the future type stories that have almost nothing to do with the original characters.

I see I'll probably be in the minority but I think Star Wars has a more sustainable universe but I think, if done right, Buffy could maybe catch up. Star Wars has been around for a long time (30 years) so it's had time to grow already.

I guess it's hard to compare when you hold one universe so closely (for me it is and always will be Star Wars). It's like apples and oranges.
 
Actually, what I originally meant was... there are so much more Star Wars fans than Buffy fans, that there simply is a bigger market for Star Wars EU than Buffyverse EU.

Also, I object to the notion that the Star Wars mythology is done. It's still very much possible to add new elements, like they did with the Yuuzhan Vong. In SW stories, only one galaxy has been explored and not even completely yet either. It's been hinted time and again that other galaxies of about the same scale probably exist too.

One more thing is that since in Star Wars technological changes between the different era's are minimal. From 4,000 BBY to 137 ABY, most things tend to stay the same. So, any EU stories can have a more or less similar setting as the 6 movies. In the Buffyverse however, only a couple of decades and one planet/dimension have a similar setting to the 2 TV-Series. Of course, you could get into Alternate Universes, but that just means we'd get the story of Buffy Summers told in 10 different ways.

Lastly, the involvement of Joss Whedon is key to Buffyverse EU being canon. In the Star Wars EU, anything that doesn't contradict George Lucas or things previously published is canon. This means that there can be a lot of different writers working on one coherent universe at the same time. With the Buffyverse however, you need Joss to declare a stories canonicity; I can't picture him reading comics and novels all day to determine whether they can be canon. There's always room for non-canon EU, but the writers of those don't really seem to bother getting their stories in check with each other, so it can never become one coherent EU.
 
In the most general terms, you could consider Luke Skywalker to be the "One boy in all the world" who is born to fight the forces of Darkness (he was even called the Chosen One, the One of a prophesy, though his father was at first mistakenly believed to be the one at first. Obiwan was his mentor, one of the few survivors of a group charged with locating and training the young men and women who were somehow born to be Jedi knights. Through Luke's efforts, after a great climactic battle against the ultimate evil in his universe, the order of the Jedi is restored, thereby establishing an army of fighters who defend mankind from the darkness.

I'm sure that I don't have to point out the similarities between the two chosen ones, the missions shared by the Jedi and the Slayers, the teachers in the Jedi Academy and the Council of Watchers, the one-on-one mentoring of the Jedi knight and his Padiwan and the training and education of the Potential by her Watcher. There is even a rogue Jedi (Anikin Skywalker) to parallel Faith, both of whom were eventually brought back to the Light.

Anybody wanta add some more to the list?
 
Yeah, Buffy and Luke follow that basic "hero's journey" template pretty well...

I think...maybe Spike at some point morphed into the Han Solo "type". The nomad, the cynical rogue, in it for himself who gradually awakens to a moral purpose. I think Faith kinda falls into that pattern a bit...with the clear Anakin parallels as well. She seems like a mix to me.

As far as the original premise of this thread...I'm thinking Star Wars will always sustain a larger "franchise", mostly because it grabs people at a younger age...4,5,6, years old...with toys, cartoons, the films. That's huge. Buffy/Angel becomes meaningful to people at a slightly later point, I'd think. A point when a lot people begin to give up on cartoons, toys, comics, games, etc.

Also, is Buffy about 50/50 male to female appeal? Or more female? Star Wars seems more male/fanboy dominated.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom