Faith and Mayor's relationship

Chosen Enemy

Chosen Enemy

Losing my soul
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I wanted to know what you think about Faith and the Mayor's relationship in season 3. Because they seem to have a father-daugther relationship, but it's not like they know each other really well. And that seems weird to me. I mean, how does he trust her? She used to be on Buffy's team. She's a Slayer. All of a sudden he takes her in and then they very quickly become close. And he really cares for her. He looked so worried when he finds her apartment all smashed to pieces and Faith is gone.

Does it seem weird to you?
 
I find the relationship between them creepy. They're mimicking the Buffy/Giles relationship but it's clearly a damaging relationship on Faith, she makes comments about it in season 7 as well as season 8. It's not a sweet Father/Daughter relationship, yes he cares for her but he uses his love to get her to kill for him. She does it because she loves him and wants to make him happy. I don't see why people love it.
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
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To me, it's like an abusive relationship. You think, well it's better to be loved by someone bad for me than not at all.

WE know that she was loved by the Buffy crew up to a point, even if it was tough love. To Faith, we're kind of shown that she doesn't always have the best idea about what real love is (one of the reasons I love her character as it develoups- she starts to love).

The Mayor gives her a storybook family, one where she is unconditionally loved. It's like, "you killed a guy, well, you're still my baby girl!" Unconditional love is what everyone wants... and what seems so hard to come by. Almost anyone, ESPECIALLY Faith, would do almost anything to keep that perfection.

Think about it really truly, not letting what people think get in the way: If you had no consequence to think about, would you kill to keep your family intact?

That is Faith's choice.

On the Mayor's part, he probably has a similar mindset to a vampire who sires another. He may want companionship... someone to teach... someone who looks up to him. He is convinced of her loyalty because he knows she craves love, and he delivers that in plenty (along with a lot of other gifts). Also, he seems to be able to see through her at times and see what she's feeling, like a classic father figure.

It's not creepy to me, it's unhealthy but not creepy.
 
X
xfivebyfive
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LoveLoveLovix said:
It's not creepy to me, it's unhealthy but not creepy.
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Same. It was weird because he really did ask her to kill and destroy, but he did genuinely love Faith. I mean, he was not faking his distraught over Buffy putting her in a coma, and if in his weird-evil way he didn't genuinely love Faith like a daughter, he wouldn't have bothered putting together that tape for her in This Year's Girl. He would have figured he failed at ascending and called it done.

And kind of similar to an early Spike, the Mayor was evil, but didn't have the capacity to love. I mean, the Mayor had a soul right? (I forget) So even if his view of the world and his power corrupted the crap out of him to the point he decided ascending was a good idea and killing people didn't matter, he did have his wife who he loved and so I think he saw Faith as like, the daughter he and his late wife never had.
 
I think that Wilkins, in his own way, genuinely cared for Faith. Their relationship was supposed tp parallel, or be the dark side version, of Buffy and Giles. Having said that, though, I also think that he used his undeniable charm and generosity to win Faith, who had obviously never had a proper father/daughter relationship with anyone in her whole life (as I recall, when she mentioned Kokistos killing her Watcher, her words wee something like, "He tore HER apart with his bare hands, right in front of me.") over to his side with gifts, miniature golf, ice cream, and frilly pink dresses.
 
I wanted to know what you think about Faith and the Mayor's relationship in season 3.
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One word - booooooooooooooooooring.

And that seems weird to me. I mean, how does he trust her? She used to be on Buffy's team. She's a Slayer. All of a sudden he takes her in and then they very quickly become close
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The obvious thing to do would be to not trust her until she has killed someone for him to show she wasn't just pretending to be on his side. They almost went there in Dopppelgangland but it didn't really happen until Choices, I believe, which was quite implausible, IMO. Not that I get why Faith thought The mayor was likely to trust her anyway. The whole thing was way too contrived. Faith, the poster girl for distrusting authority figure should have just skipped town, not decided to trust the Big bad just because Buffy pissed her off.
 
Faith and Mayor Wilkins had a father/daughter relationship, because I do think that they both actually cared about eachother that way. However, the relationship was not good for Faith to be in for many reasons. The Mayor was using her to murder people and do other bad stuff for him, and also trying to her against the people that care about her. Their relationship was definitely abusive.
 
white avenger said:
I also think that he used his undeniable charm and generosity to win Faith, who had obviously never had a proper father/daughter relationship with anyone in her whole life (as I recall, when she mentioned Kokistos killing her Watcher, her words wee something like, "He tore HER apart with his bare hands, right in front of me.") over to his side with gifts, miniature golf, ice cream, and frilly pink dresses.
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Definitely! I think that's one of the reasons the Mayor knew he could trust Faith, and why Faith stayed with the Mayor as opposed to just skipping town. Faith got tossed into this chaotic world of vampires and demons of hand (like all slayers do, except maybe Kendra, she had been raised as a potential, which we don't ever see again - but I digress) and she is met with loneliness, death, and rejection. I'm not surprised that she aligned herself with someone that genuinely seem to care for her while "getting back" at the good side that put her in the situations to begin with.
 
Well both of them were crazy, psychotic people. To them, their relationship probably did feel like a normal, loving father/daughter relationship. But of course to us, the sane viewers, we were going "WTF".
 
HisMrs said:
Well both of them were crazy, psychotic people. To them, their relationship probably did feel like a normal, loving father/daughter relationship. But of course to us, the sane viewers, we were going "WTF".
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I had a certain relatable feeling, I sort of know how Faith must have felt. You live in crazy (in the immortal words of my choir teacher), and then the father figure comes in and tells you he'll sort it out... it feels good.

NOT that my stepdad ever tried to make me kill anyone... 🙂
 
It was one of the reasons I think Mayor Wilkins was an amazing Big Bad. Faith talks about her relationship with Mayor Wilkins in-depth during s8 in "There's No Future For You", I can't remember the specific issue, but she does say something to the effect (spoiler) that her relationship was one she remembers with love
 
HisMrs said:
Well both of them were crazy, psychotic people. To them, their relationship probably did feel like a normal, loving father/daughter relationship. But of course to us, the sane viewers, we were going "WTF".
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They're not two psychotic people. The mayor is an evil demon. And Faith is a confused kid. She's not just some psychotic person. She was in pain and it was easier to ignore the pain and choose to be evil, so she turned to the mayor. He was there for her. He made it seem ok to go down that path. To her it was easier then feeling the pain of what she had done.

He loved her, but in a sick and twisted way. Having never had any other kind of love she cherished it.
 
Z
zobothehobo
I agree with you about something about Faith. But this is a large part of why I hate her.
Two dysfunctional people in a dysfunctional relationship. It seemed "sweet" at first, and he didn't have "relations" with her, but he did ask her to sleep with someone (I forgot who), and that was pretty sick.

But it was a great relationship to watch.
 
This relationship was awful. I don't know if I felt this way because I dislike both of them or because it was a fake Buffy/Giles relationship. The mayor was a creep IMO and he used Faiths weaknesses and turned her really bad, I mean i know she was devilish before she met him, but he allowed her to do evil things and then loved her for it, gross. He even gave her incentives to kill people! How horrible was he?!? Sick sick relationship haha...it made for good entertainment though.
 
Carrr4288 said:
This relationship was awful. I don't know if I felt this way because I dislike both of them or because it was a fake Buffy/Giles relationship. The mayor was a creep IMO and he used Faiths weaknesses and turned her really bad, I mean i know she was devilish before she met him, but he allowed her to do evil things and then loved her for it, gross. He even gave her incentives to kill people! How horrible was he?!? Sick sick relationship haha...it made for good entertainment though.
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I wouldn't say it was fake, because I think the feelings between them were real, I would more say that it was a twisted version of the Buffy/Giles relationship.

I know I've posted this before but that was part of the appeal of the relationship for me and partly why I love it so much. Cause it's people finding a connection where you wouldn't think a connection could be found.

The fact that it turns all, all wrong in our minds is because we have a different moral code than the Mayor does obviously.
But him encouraging her to do evil things etc was from his point of view a way to teach her how to get ahead in life and how to become 'successful'. He was looking out for Faith (and taking advantage of course because she did start out as an "employee" and like everyone he has his own agenda)

But it's just the flipside of Giles sending Buffy out to do Slayer business really, only the Mayor is granted evil so he sent her out to do 'evil' things.

But I truly believe that he wanted what was best for Faith, he truly cared for her and he thought that he was doing what was best for her (because again - evil - so his world view was slightly askew compared to the 'white hats')

So I love their relationship because it opened both of them up to something genuine in the midst of all that was spiralling out of control for Faith at that time in her life. She needed love and support... even if it was twisted.

Would it have been better for her to not become a murderer? Yes. But the Mayor didn't open that up for her, he pushed her further into it sure, but she came to him and sought that out because she was in such a dark place herself already. And in his own strange way he put some light into her life. I think that's a fascinating story and relationship to we get to see unfold and there's lots more to say about it but I haven't got the time right now and I feel I'm already getting incoherent 😀
 
*coughs into hand*

Well I think their relationship was-

*looks to the side* Oh, beg pardon. *gets disinfectant wipe and cleans hands* Thank you sir.

Anyway, the relationship between The Mayor and Faith is one of understanding the world is much more complex. The fact is, when you strip away all the supernatural elements, Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a coming of age show. It's about some kids growing up and invariably, they have to come to terms with the many different layers and facets of the world.

Evil people do not glow with a malignant aura and eat babies. They are are in fact people just like you and I. (or is it you and me? Stupid grammar) There is no denying evil exists in the setting of Buffy but not all bad guys are Angelus. Not all villains are absolute degenerates with pointed fangs and no conscience.

The Mayor is our first step, the Scoobies' first step, into broadening their view of the world. As I noted, up to now they've only faced the most stereotypical of monsters a la The Master and Angelus. The Mayor is an odd one in that, he's clearly evil. That's not even up for dispute. However being evil does not make him a Complete Monster. Being evil makes him...evil and he's completely free to do nice things or to have values.

To that end, we got the relationship between Faith and The Mayor. A dirk mirror to Giles and Buffy is what it's accused of and that's certainly true. Faith is Buffy's dark counterpart and foil so naturally the bonds she, Faith, forms will also be a reflection of something Buffy did first. it's a common narrative tool.

Anyway, back to my point. The Mayor and Faith loved one another. Why? Because they're two sentient, feeling beings and two sentient, feeling beings are completely capable of affection.

Whereas your dad might take you out for ice cream after your big win at a Little League game, the Mayor would take Faith out for ice cream after she murdered someone.

Does the comparison seen incomprehensible to you? Good. That means you're a good person with a moral compass. But in the twisted way Mr. Wilkins and Faith thought, it was a perfectly natural way to live and act.

Evil people don't usually think they're evil, BTW.

I've talked about why Faith went to the Mayor in the past. It all has to do with her growing resentment to Buffy. Much of this is in Faith's head but there is a grain of truth to it. Despite her first episode interactions with all of them, she was never really treated as a part of the group. (think Tara before "Family") Giles let Faith languish in some roach motel, no one cared if she skipped school, and she was generally left to her own devices. It didn't help that Wesley was the height of incompetent and useless at this time.

Faith was treated like "one of those cases." You know the type; they fail but the teachers don't try to mak ethem learn. The world has just given up on them. The Scoobies were like this with Faith when, in reality, she just wanted someone to tell her "no." She wanted some semblance of order in her too chaotic life.

And guess who was the one to give her that order? The Mayor provided a stable, loving home for a girl who had wanted nothing but just that. In fact it seemed to me Faith killed just like you or I might have painted a picture. She wanted to be the bestest bad girl she could be.

This has gone on too long. In summary I find their relationship amazing and very intriguing. That has a lot to do with The Mayor and Faith being two of the best characters in the Buffyverse though. They cared deeply for one another and it all serves to show us that the bad guys are in fact people too.
 
Seems like a Sugar-daddy to girl relationship to me. lol

Faith even referred to the Mayor as a sugar-daddy once, but the Mayor didn't like it. XD
 
That's because "sugar daddies" tend to give gifts to sexy young girls because they want their bodies.

I don't think the Mayor had any sexual interest in Faith.
 
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