Faith and Season 7

[SavvyScoobie]

I've always liked Faith, she always seemed more real than Buffy in all honesty and kinda made Buffy seem like a perfect miss know it all. I just wanted to post a thread because Buffy and Spike are really cringy with all the drama about Caleb and now Faith returning to lead the girls. Faith has shown to be a much stronger, honest and reliable person compared to Buffy, the girl who thinks she's better than everyone. She is acting selfish in this series. And the fact that Faith is right she hasn't even bothered to even learn the names of any of the potentials which doesn't make her a great leader at all. She doesn't seem to care whether they live or die the way she's acting. Faith is connecting with them more and giving them a reason to live. And the only cringey person that sticks up for Buffy is Spike, a man who is hopelessly obsessed with her, which doesn't say much lol

I completely disagree with all of this. Buffy's writing in season 7 is atrocious. Now why on earth would she give the potentials, who went through the same thing she did at 15, so much shit? It's so out of character and honestly you can't ignore Faith's treatment of Buffy in season 3. They were both pretty wack, but I think Buffy was seriously out of character at times. Like sure she isn't going to be perfect, but the whole situation where the potentials get injured because of Buffy's reckless decisions was so clearly due to the poor writing. A five year old could see it's a trap, so I have a hard time believing that Buffy, (with her 7 years of slayer experience) fell for that.

Also Buffy's struggles were extremely relatable, while Faith murdered someone and sa'ed Xander all in the same episode. She then tried to frame Buffy all because she was jealous of her. She was struggling, but instead of getting help, she isolated herself and blamed everyone else for it.

Spike was right to defend Buffy, like sure she made stupid decisions but she still owns the house...you don't get to kick her out. What if Buffy had gotten injured the night she was kicked out due to lack of shelter?

To end this off I'm gonna say that season 7 sucks, but I liked Faith's character development for the most part.

 

[NoShip]

Spike was right to defend Buffy, like sure she made stupid decisions but she still owns the house...you don't get to kick her out. What if Buffy had gotten injured the night she was kicked out due to lack of shelter?

Of course Spike defended Buffy. She was the only one he cared about. Literally no one else mattered to him.

Just so ya know..... Buffy was not kicked out. She was demoted. Then she refused to accept the demotion. Then she made a idiotic ultimatum of 'I'm in charge or I'm leaving' and everyone else said 'ok'.

So, we had our fifth(?) Scooby break up scene and in two eps all will be swept under the rug and the Buffy-Scooby machine will grind on and on and on.

 

[SavvyScoobie]

Of course Spike defended Buffy. She was the only one he cared about. Literally no one else mattered to him.

Just so ya know..... Buffy was not kicked out. She was demoted. Then she refused to accept the demotion. Then she made a idiotic ultimatum of 'I'm in charge or I'm leaving' and everyone else said 'ok'.

So, we had our fifth(?) Scooby break up scene and in two eps all will be swept under the rug and the Buffy-Scooby machine will grind on and on and on.

She never said she was leaving btw. Dawn kicked her out, which I also think was out of character but yeah. Being bossy doesn't give you a right to kick someone out of their own home. I mean the bad attitude and annoying behavior of the potentials never meant that THEY got kicked out.

And if the Scoobies REALLY cared about Buffy they would've stopped her before she left. They brought her back to life traumatized and expected her to fix everything per usual.

Unfortunately these people never get held accountable, which is why yeah...they did make up.

 

[NoShip]

Unfortunately these people never get held accountable, which is why yeah...they did make up.

And Buffy was never held accountable. And Spike was never held accountable and so on and so on and so on.

I don't think ownership mattered any more. At the beginning of the next episode, Buffy kicks some guy out of his house and just settles in. Even asks for some Tab.

 

[SavvyScoobie]

And Buffy was never held accountable. And Spike was never held accountable and so on and so on and so on.

I don't think ownership mattered any more. At the beginning of the next episode, Buffy kicks some guy out of his house and just settles in. Even asks for some Tab.

To be fair, the writing of season 7 was very out of character for everyone, and many fans share this sentiment. Buffy had just gotten out of depression but a lot of what she did felt 'too far' and were honestly weird writing choices. Season 7 was the most sloppy one by far

Also you never addressed the fact that Buffy was unfairly kicked out of her own home, especially considering every1 needed her to save the world.

 

[NoShip]

Also you never addressed the fact that Buffy was unfairly kicked out of her own home, especially considering every1 needed her to save the world.

You and I disagree on the 'kicked out' part. I think she gave the Scoobies and Potentials an ultimatum (I am in charge or I am leaving) and they didn't fall for it. So Buffy was not kicked out. She left.

 

[hoponlilmama]

Of course Spike defended Buffy. She was the only one he cared about. Literally no one else mattered to him.

As I once said in another thread, Buffy could slaughter all the Potentials in front of him, and Spike would say: "You're a hell of a woman".

She never said she was leaving btw. Dawn kicked her out, which I also think was out of character but yeah. Being bossy doesn't give you a right to kick someone out of their own home. I mean the bad attitude and annoying behavior of the potentials never meant that THEY got kicked out.

She actually said: "I can't watch you just throw away everything that.." and then, "I can't stay here and watch her lead you into some disaster."

She got called out on it. You don't make those claims and not expect someone to push back. Everyone in that house had every right to question her and her decisions/tactics. As Giles said, they're clearly demonstrating that not everyone is on board with her choices.

 

[garfan]

You think if Dawn hadn't said "then you can't be here" and the potentials had just started doing what Faith said she would have actually walked out

The fact Willow couldn't even really justify it later shows it

I completely disagree with all of this. Buffy's writing in season 7 is atrocious. Now why on earth would she give the potentials, who went through the same thing she did at 15, so much shit?

Because the potentials weren't really her equivalent, they were the student body at Sunnydale High equivalent. And while Buffy tried to be nice to that group, she would occasionally snap at people, and would smack around bullies and actually intimidated some of them into submission at times

She actually said: "I can't watch you just throw away everything that.." and then, "I can't stay here and watch her lead you into some disaster."

She got called out on it. You don't make those claims and not expect someone to push back. Everyone in that house had every right to question her and her decisions/tactics. As Giles said, they're clearly demonstrating that not everyone is on board with her choices.

Yeah, Giles wasn't on board with Buffy's choices in Prophecy Girl. She punched him in the face and went anyway. I don't think people were generally on board with how far she went to save Angel. In season 5 she flat out tells them she'll kill them if they try anything with Dawn


Honestly I wish at some point she'd told the potentials that when she and Faith died and one of them gets called, they won't get to pick and choose when she has to fight

 

[hoponlilmama]

Yeah, Giles wasn't on board with Buffy's choices in Prophecy Girl. She punched him in the face and went anyway. I don't think people were generally on board with how far she went to save Angel. In season 5 she flat out tells them she'll kill them if they try anything with Dawn


Honestly I wish at some point she'd told the potentials that when she and Faith died and one of them gets called, they won't get to pick and choose when she has to fight

Haha, can you imagine? "Well, girls, you're on your own!"

Buffy has lived for as long as she has because she had help. Strength in numbers, but what also helps is putting heads together and discussing plans and tactics in order to defeat whatever Big Bad they're facing.

Ignoring everyone, especially just after getting your butt kicked - not ideal.

 

[NoShip]

The fact Willow couldn't even really justify it later shows it

That was part of the set up for Spike's speech in Touched.

So Willow is the sole speaker for the entire group? Lame.

The confrontation between Spike and the group was designed to make the Scoobies and Potentials look terrible so Spike would look awesome as he went to rescue Buffy.

In Touched, Whedon & Co had a problem, a lot of viewers thought that the "mutineers" were in the right because of Buffy's bad job as a commander. So the "mutineers" had to be written as jealous of Buffy rather than scared of her.

Also, you are staring down a master vampire who is really pissed and isn't chipped or restrained in any way. Not being able to speak is pretty normal.

 

[garfan]

Haha, can you imagine? "Well, girls, you're on your own!"

Buffy has lived for as long as she has because she had help. Strength in numbers, but what also helps is putting heads together and discussing plans and tactics in order to defeat whatever Big Bad they're facing.

Ignoring everyone, especially just after getting your butt kicked - not ideal.

and she said she'd be willing to talk about the plan. The Turok-Han kicking her ass didn't lead to Buffy trying to avoid the Turok Han in future battles

This group has battered a god into submission you know. They didn't prepare for their battles with the M mayor, or Adam or Glory by looking for ways to avoid them and focus on the minions.

And I don't see how my comment suggezts that. Merely that Buffy has had to go into plenty of battles she didn't want to. And the next Slayer, if the rules had stayed the same, also would have

That was part of the set up for Spike's speech in Touched.

So was the act of actually tossing her out

So Willow is the sole speaker for the entire group? Lame.

When you're the only one who steps up...

The confrontation between Spike and the group was designed to make the Scoobies and Potentials look terrible so Spike would look awesome as he went to rescue Buffy.

In Touched, Whedon & Co had a problem, a lot of viewers thought that the "mutineers" were in the right because of Buffy's bad job as a commander. So the "mutineers" had to be written as jealous of Buffy rather than scared of her.

Jealous? Scared of Buffy? They were written as scared of Caleb.

Interesting that that was the sort of reaction that Joss and co were getting, because on the creative side there were plenty of fic writers who had that as the straw that broke the camels back. Like even in their stories where they kept things the same to the end the next step after the crater was Buffy basically going "So now that we're done, we're done."

Also, you are staring down a master vampire who is really pissed and isn't chipped or restrained in any way. Not being able to speak is pretty normal.

Willow wasn't intimidated by Angelus when shecwent to LA. Even barely using magic she could take one

 

[SavvyScoobie]

You and I disagree on the 'kicked out' part. I think she gave the Scoobies and Potentials an ultimatum (I am in charge or I am leaving) and they didn't fall for it. So Buffy was not kicked out. She left.

Agree to disagree.

 

[NoShip]

Jealous? Scared of Buffy? They were written as scared of Caleb.

Where they scared of Caleb? Absolutely! But, they demoted Buffy because of a string of bad decisions. Buffy's plan to go back in to the vineyard in exactly the same way that had just gotten a bunch of Scoobies & Potentials killed & wounded scared the hell out of them and motivated the demotion.

 

[garfan]

Where they scared of Caleb? Absolutely! But, they demoted Buffy because of a string of bad decisions. Buffy's plan to go back in to the vineyard in exactly the same way that had just
gotten a bunch of Scoobies & Potentials killed & wounded scared the hell out of them and motivated the demotion.

Caleb was the bad decision they cared about.

They were talking like there was nothing at the vineyard, like they could win the fight eventually without fighting him

Here's the direct quote from Faith

"Listen, we're fighters, all of us, but you gotta give me something to fight, something real, not"

They only want a fight they can win at this moment. But they have no reason to assume there is another fight available. Attacking that Bringer when they do gains them nothing. But even if it hadn't been a trap? They have weapons so gaining weapons wouldn't help them. The Bringers didn't need the supposed arsenal to kill all the potentials they had previously or to blow up the Watcher's Council

 

[hoponlilmama]

and she said she'd be willing to talk about the plan. The Turok-Han kicking her ass didn't lead to Buffy trying to avoid the Turok Han in future battles

No, I believe she said she was willing to talk tactics, but not budging on the general plan of going back in.
Giles even says that no one is agreeing with her plan and they're not on the same page.