Faith And Spike Swapping Parts

[white avenger]

How much change would it have made in the two story lines in Season 7 of "Buffy" and Season 4 of "Angel" respectively if the roles played by Faith and Spike had been reversed?

 

[janas]

...and Faith reappears in Los Angeles as a ghost, and she is in the fifth season of ATS? I would have loved it, absolutely.

But I can't see Spike which helps Angel against his alter ego. I think Spike would help Connor to kill Angelus. But assuming a similar scenario, then we would also Spike which goes to Cleveland and he has a relationship with Wood? I would have loved it, too. ok, I'm kidding about Spike 😉 but on Faith not. I would have liked if her to be present in ATS5.

 

[white avenger]

...and Faith reappears in Los Angeles as a ghost, and she is in the fifth season of ATS? I would have loved it, absolutely.

But I can't see Spike which helps Angel against his alter ego. I think Spike would help Connor to kill Angelus. But assuming a similar scenario, then we would also Spike which goes to Cleveland and he has a relationship with Wood? I would have loved it, too. ok, I'm kidding about Spike 😉 but on Faith not. I would have liked if her to be present in ATS5.

Spike would help Angel in Season 4 simply because "she" wouldn't like it if anything happened to the big poof, Also, for the sadistic pleasure of Angel owing him a favor afterward. As for Angel going to Cleveland with Wood, he wouldn't have had a chance, because when Wood tried to kill Wood, she wouldn't have had Spike's reasons for not killing him.

Actually, I was thinking that someone by now would have been fantasizing about Buffy asking Faith to "just hold her," and the two of them spending the last two nights together in the cellar.

Where are all the Fuffies? This one was specifically for you.

And, by the way, that was supposed to be "Spike and FAITH Swapping Places," The flu and Codeine cough syrup will do that to you.

 

[janas]

Spike would help Angel in Season 4 simply because "she" wouldn't like it if anything happened to the big poof, Also, for the sadistic pleasure of Angel owing him a favor afterward. As for Angel going to Cleveland with Wood, he wouldn't have had a chance, because when Wood tried to kill Wood, she wouldn't have had Spike's reasons for not killing him.

Actually, I was thinking that someone by now would have been fantasizing about Buffy asking Faith to "just hold her," and the two of them spending the last two nights together in the cellar.

Where are all the Fuffies? This one was specifically for you.

Angel going to Cleveland with Wood? Wood tried to kill Wood? Ok, I admit that I didn't understand anything, but I get the point about Fuffy, I had not thought about 🙂

 

[white avenger]

Angel going to Cleveland with Wood? Wood tried to kill Wood? Ok, I admit that I didn't understand anything, but I get the point about Fuffy, I had not thought about 🙂

Note what I said about the codeine cough syrup. But, now that you mention it, Angel and Wood would make a cute couple, and who's to say that Cleveland wouldn't have been a better site for Season 5?

 

[Buffy Summers]

Wow I think that would have been great. Really great.

 

[Blaze]

So we get like 3 solid seasons of Fuffy. Count me in! I just don't want that unhealthy relationship of s6 though.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

I'm not sure how Faith could take on Spikes role in S7 from prison. She only escapes prison for Angel. And I' not sure Spike would be any more help at capturing Angelus, maybe a little bit more, but it was always going to be Willow that restores his soul. With that said. Yes I want Buffy asking Faith to hold her all night! So if were saying that Faith never went to prison and she had taken over Spikes role from the start, then yay we could have had tons of Fuffy! But I agree non of that s6 shit. Although I can totally see Faith being just as S&M as Spike. lol. I wish Faith would have shown up at least once in AtS S5, but I guess Eliza was off shooting Tru calling.

 

[thetopher]

Leaving all logic aside about how this came to be, it would've been great to have Fuffy in S7.
You could have lots of realistic mistrust from the Scoobies- Xander and Willow and Giles actually interacting with Faith about the dark choices she made so long ago.
She's still the same person (sort of) except she's accepted years of punishment for her crime instead of turning up a few months later saying 'I'm all cured from that evil stuff!' *cough* Willow *cough*
She has a different attitude to things whilst not being entirely trustworthy- it easily could've worked.

Faith could've opened up to Buffy when Buffy started relying on/believing in her more and I could see a real closeness developing there as their relationship progressed. I'm not sure it would've been 'love' exactly, or at least not romantic love. We'd have to settle for boat loads of sexual chemistry...😀

Most of all I could see Faith giving Buffy something similar to the speech Spike gave her (although hopefully it would've been less contrived) because Faith knows Buffy. Buffy is everything Faith isn't, not just a slayer but as The Slayer
Faith has been Buffy's friend, her enemy and her nemesis. The one person who absolutely could nail Buffy's darker character traits. (Watch 'Consequences' and 'Sanctuary' and see how Faith pretty much predicts Buffy's behaviour in S5 and 6 and her later attitudes in S7.)
Faith has had jealousy towards Buffy and also a lot of self-hate because she feels that she doesn't measure up- she's in a perfect position to tell Buffy how she sees her and how special Buffy is, just when Buffy needed to hear it most. 🙂
That would've been something special.

And yes to most of everything else. Faith sacrificing herself to save the world. Yes, she was willing to sacrifice herself for Angel afterall. She would've seen it as her redemption. So of course Buffy and Faith share one last kiss and then Buffy runs out of the Hellmouth to safety.

Then Faith comes back as a ghost in Angel S5?
We saw how well Faith interacted with Angel, Wes and the others in only a couple of episodes but to get that for 22 would've glorious! The one problem that S5 had was it really lacked for female energy when Cordelia left. (Harmony IS NOT a substitute imo) I think Faith could've filled that role perfectly while still being the ghost at Angel's side asking him what the hell he's doing running the evil firm that once hired her to kill him...
Faith already had a connection with Wesley and Angel, so we could've see her interact more with Fred and Gunn. The only things we couldn't really have gotten was the whole 'Shanshu thing' which was dropped after an episode or two anyway- no big loss. And those homerotic flashbacks...

Could she have been manipulated by Lindsey? You bet. Love triangle/rivalry with Angel? Maybe, if it came to Buffy. And how I would've liked to see Illyria interact with a slayer...🙂

As for Angel going to Cleveland with Wood, he wouldn't have had a chance, because when Wood tried to kill Faith, she wouldn't have had Spike's reasons for not killing him.

I disagree, Faith wouldn't take a human life, not again. She didn't kill any of those cops that tried to execute her in cold blood right there in the street- although she was briefly tempted.
I presume in this scenario Wood's vengeance would've been about somebody Faith killed when she went rogue- in that case he would've been a hell of a lot more sympathetic, and Faith would've realised that. (No 'I don't give a crap about...' line.)
Even if Wood tried to set her up somehow and kill her she wouldn't have killed him. Faith would've definitly put him in hospital- possibly broken a few limbs. You don't pull that crap on a girl from Southie. 😉

So we get like 3 solid seasons of Fuffy. Count me in! I just don't want that unhealthy relationship of s6 though.

I can't see how the S6 thing would translate with Fuffy. Lots of kinky, violent sex? Sure, we've all seen Buffy and Faith fight- at least half of that is unresolved sexual tention...
But I couldn't imagine Faith coming out with half the crap that Spike does, nor can I see Buffy being so disgusted with herself for having sex with her.

'Sleeping with reformed murderer who happens to be a girl' doesn't translate with 'sleeping with souless demon' for me, not in any way. She might've been ashamed to tell her friends- because of all the history, but she wouldn't have broken down in Tara's arms like that.

 

[white avenger]

So we get like 3 solid seasons of Fuffy. Count me in! I just don't want that unhealthy relationship of s6 though.

No, just Season 7. Both Spike's and Faith's return to Sunnydale would be the point where the role reversal begins.

I'm not sure how Faith could take on Spikes role in S7 from prison. She only escapes prison for Angel. And I' not sure Spike would be any more help at capturing Angelus, maybe a little bit more, but it was always going to be Willow that restores his soul. .

One of the First Evil's henchmen, maybe Caleb, visits Faith in prison and tells her that Buffy is in imminent danger from a force that she cannot hope to defeat alone. Faith escapes with the intention of helping, is somehow subjugated by the First Evil, and she is sent to Sunnydale in a semi-hysterical state. Buffy finds her there, hiding in the new school cellar (we can skip the part about living off of rats) takes pity on her, and gives her asylum and support, over the objections of everyone else, who remember killer Faith. That pretty much puts her in the same position, under Buffy's protection and the First's control, as Spike was at the same time.

Spike shows up in LA needing Angel's help with coping with the guilt that his new soul presents, finds that Angelus has returned, and basically helps to the same extent that Faith originally did before Willow arrives, restores Angel's soul, and recruits Spike to help in Sunnydale.

Pretty much a reversal of their roles, with modifications to fit their indivigual story lines.

Faith could've opened up to Buffy when Buffy started relying on/believing in her more and I could see a real closeness developing there as their relationship progressed. I'm not sure it would've been 'love' exactly, or at least not romantic love. We'd have to settle for boat loads of sexual chemistry...😀

(Faith) is in a perfect position to tell Buffy how she sees her and how special Buffy is, just when Buffy needed to hear it most. 🙂
That would've been something special.

And yes to most of everything else. Faith sacrificing herself to save the world. Yes, she was willing to sacrifice herself for Angel afterall. She would've seen it as her redemption. So of course Buffy and Faith share one last kiss and then Buffy runs out of the Hellmouth to safety.


Faith wouldn't take a human life, not again.
Even if Wood tried to set her up somehow and kill her she wouldn't have killed him. Faith would've definitly put him in hospital- possibly broken a few limbs. You don't pull that crap on a girl from Southie. 😉



I can't see how the S6 thing would translate with Fuffy.

When I referred to "Fuffy," I was referring more to a renewed friendship and trust, the kind of thing that they shared in early Season 3, not necessarily romance. Add all the sexual tension you care to, but we've got Willow and her barely more than jail bait girlfriend with the tongue stud to furnish the real thing. We could even edit out the "I love you" declaration, the way that they did when it was shown at the beginning of Season 5 of "Angel."

I could live with Wood only getting off with 3 or 4 broken limbs for his trouble. (That whole sequence might have been shown as Faith discovering that Wood was planning to kill Buffy for some obscure reason, like, maybe Wood was the last surviving Knight of Byzantium, seeking revenge for Buffy's part in the destruction of his Order, and Faith found out about it.) Faith has to be shown as having gained some degree of control during her term in prison.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

One of the First Evil's henchmen, maybe Caleb, visits Faith in prison and tells her that Buffy is in imminent danger from a force that she cannot hope to defeat alone. Faith escapes with the intention of helping, is somehow subjugated by the First Evil, and she is sent to Sunnydale in a semi-hysterical state. Buffy finds her there, hiding in the new school cellar (we can skip the part about living off of rats) takes pity on her, and gives her asylum and support, over the objections of everyone else, who remember killer Faith. That pretty much puts her in the same position, under Buffy's protection and the First's control, as Spike was at the same time.

Spike shows up in LA needing Angel's help with coping with the guilt that his new soul presents, finds that Angelus has returned, and basically helps to the same extent that Faith originally did before Willow arrives, restores Angel's soul, and recruits Spike to help in Sunnydale.

Hmm. I kind of like that. More Faith is always better. Would Faith break out of prison for Buffy? She didn't want to for Angel until she found out about Angelus. I guess if she thought that Buffy was going to die without her. It would make the First seem more calculating as a big bad. The other thing is, would Buffy really feel bad for Faith? We see that even after being in prison and helping Angel, Buffy still doesn't really trust her, so would she be willing to help Faith like she did Spike. Remember the difference is that Faith had a soul when she went bad, I'm not sure that is something Buffy will ever fully forgive her for, and it's sad. But if it all plays out the same, I'd rather have Spike on Angel than s7 Spuffy.

 

[thetopher]

When I referred to "Fuffy," I was referring more to a renewed friendship and trust, the kind of thing that they shared in early Season 3, not necessarily romance. Add all the sexual tension you care to

Sorry, but if you wanna swap Spuffy for Fuffy then in my mind you're gonna get the romance. 😉
And there is no doubt in my mind that if Buffy were to help Faith the same way she did Spike then all those feelings would bubble up all over again. But it could easily be a subtle thing. (us Fuffies live for the subtle/subtext in all things Buffy/Faith related)

And also I see Faith being the one to finally say 'I love you.' to Buffy and only at the end when the Hellmouth is closing- sort of a final declaration/apology. She's gonna die so to hell with all the 'defensiveness and weird mixed signals' subtext.
And the consequences of it could be dealt with later when Buffy comes to visit her in Angel S5. 🙂

but we've got Willow and her barely more than jail bait girlfriend with the tongue stud to furnish the real thing.

You mean with their complete lack of anything approaching chemistry? (or should that be magic) Willow/Kennedy might kiss and snuggle but imo it's far from 'real'. It's pure rebound for Willow, 'cause her actual girlfriend (who she loved deeply) has been dead for about a year.
Willow/Kennedy is a huge, thundering mistake whitchever way you look at it.

 

[janas]

You mean with their complete lack of anything approaching chemistry? (or should that be magic) Willow/Kennedy might kiss and snuggle but imo it's far from 'real'. It's pure rebound for Willow, 'cause her actual girlfriend (who she loved deeply) has been dead for about a year.
Willow/Kennedy is a huge, thundering mistake whitchever way you look at it.

Agree. This is the way JW sees things, though. The story must go on even at the expense of the story itself. SMG didn't agree with the Parker arc, she said it was too early to introduce "a new love", Angel had just gone away, and she thought that Buffy was not yet ready to move forward, but Joss did not want to hear reasons.

And with Kennedy he has made the same mistake. I say it is a mistake because... come on, those who of us have loved Willow / Kennedy? It the response of the fans that counts and none of us have loved the "Willow must go on with his life" It was too early to Willow. Joss has not left us no time to metabolize the death of Tara and then comes Kennedy? Zero credibility.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

And with Kennedy he has made the same mistake. I say it is a mistake because... come on, those who of us have loved Willow / Kennedy? It the response of the fans that counts and none of us have loved the "Willow must go on with his life" It was too early to Willow. Joss has not left us no time to metabolize the death of Tara and then comes Kennedy? Zero credibility.

I disagree. (go figure) Kennedy was perfect for Willow (at that time) and made perfect sense. She was the classic rebound girl. Willow could be close/intimate with someone, someone who was the opposite in every way to Tara. The fact there are NO similarities between Tara and Kennedy is why I think it made sense.

 

[VisionBoy]

Personally, I liked Faith more in Angel, simply because the grittier tone just fit her so perfectly. However, it would have been great to have Faith as a main character in a season of either show. I do think having her play more of a role in season 7 would have been good since the slayer line was at stake and I think if she had been in it early on in the season, it would have been nice for Buffy and Faith to take more of a joint leadership role, rather than the "Pick a side!" stuff that we got.
As for Spike in season 4, I could see that. I know the Spike-Angel dynamic was something Joss had intended to explore more in Angel before it was cancelled, so having Spike fight against Angelus in season 4 could have made up for that. It could be quite interesting to see how souled Spike would react to Angelus and vice-versa.

Then Faith comes back as a ghost in Angel S5?
We saw how well Faith interacted with Angel, Wes and the others in only a couple of episodes but to get that for 22 would've glorious! The one problem that S5 had was it really lacked for female energy when Cordelia left. (Harmony IS NOT a substitute imo) I think Faith could've filled that role perfectly while still being the ghost at Angel's side asking him what the hell he's doing running the evil firm that once hired her to kill him...

I always wished they'd done it this way. Bringing Faith into season 5 would have been great and as I said, I would have loved seeing her in the opening titles of any season. Couldn't agree more about the lack of female energy. Fred is the only female character I really consider in season 5. Harmony was very much in the background with the exception of Harm's Way (I was surprised to see her in the opening to be honest for all the screen time she had) and Eve... well, who really cares? Oh and I almost forgot Nina; but then doesn't that pretty much say it all?
I felt it needed a strong woman in the cast who Angel had a good rapport with; a female friend who was a capable fighter. Faith would have absolutely fit that role.
And then maybe replace Eve with Lilah... then we'd have Fred, Faith and Lilah. 3 richly developed female characters, all very different. Perfect. (Excuse the digression 😎)

 

[bespangeled]

I'd really love this - but them I'm a Spangel, so we and our sister Fuffies would be in heaven.

I can see Buffy and Faith together and that would be so full of great potential . I suspect it would have some of the same dynamic - Buffy fighting against her desire to be with Faith, and giving in to it but Faith would be more able to read her Spike was. There would be a lot of reason to mistrust her - especially for Buffy and Giles. They'd be more paranoid about taking Buffy's body, not the murder, and Angelus wouldn't be available to reassure. But I don't want to have Faith die in the hellmouth. Normally I would say give it to Kennedy but I worry about Willow. Have Anya use it - it's a better death than what she got. Damn - this is a fanfic gold mine!

Now, since I love Spangel I would see a relationship like that of Lilah and Wesley.

You're not friends. You'll never be
friends. You'll be in love till it
kills you both. You'll fight, you'll
shag, you'll hate each other till it
makes you quiver, but you'll never be
friends. Real love isn't brains,
children, it's blood, it's blood
screaming inside you to work its
will. I may be love's bitch, but at
least I'm man enough to admit it.

I always figured this was not a description of Spike and Dru and not one of Buffy and Angel - but 'hate each other'. yeah that's Spike and Angel. Even if there was no sex involved their dynamic is so full of potential. Angelus got jealous that Spike wanted to leave him and go to Dru because Angelus likes to be adored (he did create Dru). So he punished Spike by letting his know he was bottom of the heap, beta male, and s**t runs downhill. Angel ran from the whole family for obvious reason. But when he and Spike were on the sub, not only did he not stake Spike but he made sure Spike would survive. He called Spike dangerous, and he also thought Spike would be dumb enough to believe those lies. And he ran from Spike (and minions).


When Spike back came to Sunnydale, Angel saved his life more than once - at one time he gets between Buffy and Spike. Angelus used lots of sadism to torture Spike, and then Spike went and tortured Angel, but Angel did nothing to retaliate ("Hey Buffy, next time you see Spike would you stake him for me?)When Spike back came to Sunnydale, Angel saved his life more than once - at one time he gets between Buffy and Spike. This is the Angel that killed or tried to kill the entire rest of the family - dusted Lawson, Pen and Darla - then set fire to Darla and Dru.

So I say Spangel and Fuffy forever - and whatever else you may ship😀