Faith and Spike

[TotallySpiked]

I do see a connection between them but I don't know if I would like to see it explored any further than friendship. I think the two of them understand each other and could be great friends/allies but still challenge each other at the same time. That being said though, I did see some chemistry, so maybe just a one time thing and then them both deciding they're better off as friends. I couldn't see it being anything successful. I did however see real potential between Spike and Fred - I loved the way that she stood up to him and how he playfully flirted with her - I'd want to see that explored further...But I love Fresley more.

 

[Mischlings]

Off topic - but I have to comment because I disagree, and it bothers me how utterly twisted that entire paragraph is. You cannot 'force redemption upon' somebody, because in itself 'forcing redemption' is a complete and total oxymoron.

You cannot force somebody to seek redemption, because seeking redemption implies a free will and desire to atone. It requires conscious acceptance of one's sins, understanding that you did wrong, and subsequent resolution to do something about it. As such, a being without a soul cannot either be 'forced into redemption' or 'choose to seek redemption'. Per date, Spike never choose redemption - not without a soul ( since it is impossible lacking a free will - and he lacked free will at the time being implanted with a chip). Nor with a soul - since once he got a soul Spike simply transitioned to a state where he chose to separate his new self from his old one, ('Have a soul now' to quote from him) and firmly assert lack of responsibility for the past crimes. As such souled Spike feels completely guiltless most of the time , and has decided for himself that he is a Champion - thus deciding that he does not need redemption. Act of getting a soul itself is/was also not equivalent with getting to be redeemed - because Spike sought a soul for entirely wrong reasons.

Faith always had a soul, and yes, at some point her life was turned around and she freely chose for herself to seek redemption - but she got help and Angel's support was what turned out to be instrumental in her choosing path of redemption vs path of suicide. And that's why she and Angel have this connection. She has certain rapport with Spike, but it by no means has anything to do with understanding of the need to atone - because see above - Spike has no such need and never had one.

Yeah, this conversation belongs in a different thread. My wording wasn't the best, I'll admit that. Essentially, I'm noting the difference between Spike making the choice to get his soul back and Angel having it forced upon him. Spike chose to go that route, and Angel didn't. After they got their souls restored, yes, Angel made the choice to change, but so did Spike.

Like I said, any more of this, and we should really take it to another thread.

 

[Evil Angelus 95]

I ship them 🙂 It was something that was suggested to me, and the more I thought about it, the more it made sense in my mind, so I adopted it

 

[BuffyElevated]

I don't hardcore ship them, but I do think their pairing is highly interesting. I've done several fanart pieces based on them as a couple; I think they'd be highly sexual and violent together. Their relationship would probably be something like the last part of "Wrecked".

 

[ladydorotea]

After they got their souls restored, yes, Angel made the choice to change, but so did Spike.

Like I said, any more of this, and we should really take it to another thread.

Different thread indeed, but nonetheless I disagree with Spike making a choice to change 'for redemption' - he had no free will at the time of deciding to get a soul, thus he could not do it for the right reason, and done for the wrong reason it is not the right choice - being a choice not for redemption but rather for satisfying one's need to be loved. After the change Spike once again does not make a choice to change - he is more or less forced by circumstances and just goes with the flow, never until that moment in Damages even stopping to think about something as ephemeral and pointless as 'atonement' for something he does not feel guilty about.

 

[Mischlings]

Different thread indeed, but nonetheless I disagree with Spike making a choice to change 'for redemption' - he had no free will at the time of deciding to get a soul, thus he could not do it for the right reason, and done for the wrong reason it is not the right choice - being a choice not for redemption but rather for satisfying one's need to be loved. After the change Spike once again does not make a choice to change - he is more or less forced by circumstances and just goes with the flow, never until that moment in Damages even stopping to think about something as ephemeral and pointless as 'atonement' for something he does not feel guilty about.

Okay, last thing I have to say here is that I don't think we're going to agree here -- we disagree on something really deep beneath this conversation, and if we continue it, we'll just end up talking past each other for pages. So let's just agree to disagree about this and get the topic back to the, well, topic.

I ship them 🙂 It was something that was suggested to me, and the more I thought about it, the more it made sense in my mind, so I adopted it

I don't hardcore ship them, but I do think their pairing is highly interesting. I've done several fanart pieces based on them as a couple; I think they'd be highly sexual and violent together. Their relationship would probably be something like the last part of "Wrecked".

You two are making me think about what it even means to "ship" a pairing/threesome/whatever. I mean, if it's just about liking a relationship, then put be down for Faith/Buffy, Faith/Spike, Buffy/Spike, Faith/Angel, Buffy/Angel (not in order of preference), Willow/Oz, Willow/Tara, and you're starting to see the problem -- it's useless as a label.

Getting this back on topic, I'd like to see some of this fanart you speak of.

 

[TaylorSwift]

I don't officially ship them but I've always thought it could be very interesting. They could make a good match, I'd like to see this developed.

 

[BuffyElevated]

You two are making me think about what it even means to "ship" a pairing/threesome/whatever. I mean, if it's just about liking a relationship, then put be down for Faith/Buffy, Faith/Spike, Buffy/Spike, Faith/Angel, Buffy/Angel (not in order of preference), Willow/Oz, Willow/Tara, and you're starting to see the problem -- it's useless as a label.

Getting this back on topic, I'd like to see some of this fanart you speak of.

Well I don't 'ship anyone in the terms of dissecting every scene between them, looking for a deep connection or anything. I don't get all crazy and into it like some people (starting wars with people who like a ship I don't, arguing my point over and over, etc.), so if that's what you mean, then I guess my label for a 'ship is "useless".

If you'd like to see any of my fanart, though, you can see it on my site, All Night Noise, which is linked in my siggy.

 

[tylermaaynard]

I would of loved to see more scenes with spike and faith together. I think if the writers took it to the right place they could of had something go on but I guess there was just not enough time as it was the final season.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

A Faith and Spike relationship might have overshadowed Buffy and Angel and the writers could not let that happen. You know it would have been violent and therefore, interesting from a from a visual standpoint (although Buffy and Spike did enough damage to the abandoned house when they linked up).

Maybe the writers didn't want thses particular competing relationships.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

I really don't see it. I see a friendship, similar to Angel/Faith. In the first place, Faith is in no place to be in a relationship with ANYone, and yes, I mean even more so than the other twisted characters on the show who are, relatively speaking. (I haven't been reading Angel and Faith, so I can't speak to her current state, though).

Spike and Faith have a lot in common, particularly in season 7. Faith has just returned from prison, where she went, voluntarily. She is trying to redeem herself to Buffy in particular, and prove to herself that she is something other than who she was before. Spike has just returned from Africa where he went to get his soul, voluntarily. He is trying to redeem himself to Buffy in particular, intent on proving that he is not evil; that he is now "the kind of man who would never." Both did horrible things specifically to the people they cared about most, right before making that first step toward reforming, (prison, Africa).
Nobody but Buffy has much faith, (haha), in either one of them. Neither one has much to live for but both want to be useful before they die.

Spike, historically, is not particularly attracted to those with which he has a lot in common. Certainly, with Buffy, we see that it's her goodness that captures his attention; even before his soul, in season 5 he fights to be accepted into the "light" with her--and when that fails he tries to bring her down in to the dark with him, in season 6. Though he tells her she's just like him--that she belongs in the dark--we know that that is a desperate, (and truly upsetting if not exactly par for a vampire), tactic to draw her to him. A last-ditch attempt. But what he's truly drawn to is that unattainable good that ultimately keeps her from being stuck in the darkness with him; for some reason he's drawn to it as early as season 5.

Faith doesn't have that. In season 7 when Spike looks at Faith, he may as well be looking into a mirror. Just take the beginning of "Dirty Girls:" Spike mistakes Faith for "evil," and Faith mistakes Spike for "evil." "Isn't she supposed to be the bad slayer?" he wonders. "Isn't he supposed to be a soulless vampire?" she wonders. And all around them are scoobies who are wondering the exact same thing. "Soul, no soul...prison, no prison...how do we know if they've changed?" Anyway, all this is not something that sparks a desire for a relationship within Spike.