Faith and The Mayor

[xfivebyfive]

I just finished season 3 in my rewatch and it reminded me of how creepy I find the whole relationship between Faith and the Mayor. Everyone that I discuss it with though doesn't seem to see what I see. I knew once I finished though I would start a thread about it.

I know that the Mayor cared about Faith, we see this time and again the way he talks to her, and cares for her. How he puts the ascension on hold until they find her. I don't doubt that he loves her, in his way. But that doesn't make it any less creepy to me.

Faith is a very damaged girl. She never really had anyone that cared about her until the Mayor. So, of course she loves that he dotes on her and will do anything for him. He uses her, he's evil. That's not a healthy relationship. Particularly mentally for Faith. Does he really love her? If he did why would he ask her to do those things? A Father is supposed to protect, that's not what he does. I know he isn't her father, he's an evil demon or whatever he is. But people tell me they love their "Father-Daughter" relationship, that's not how a Father treats a daughter. At least not a healthy relationship. It's far more detrimental to Faith in the long run then helpful.

You see the little girl in Faith come out around him several times, like when he gives her the knife. She's so pleased to get a present. The knife is really symbolic of this throughout the rest of the season. She loves it because it's hers, because he gave it to her. She talks about it like a child does a toy. When Buffy takes it out in Graduation Day to kill her she says "Thats mine" like a child that wants their toy back. But its a knife! Its a weapon. A weapon the mayor gave her. How is that sweet? How is that healthy?

Or when he has her put on the dress. She looks so uncomfortable and miserable in it. But the way he talks to her is sweet right? Telling her how beautiful she is:

MAYOR: Let me tell you something. Nobody knows what you are. Not even you, little miss seen-it-all. The Ascension isn't just my day, it's yours too. Your day to blossom, to show the world what a powerful girl you are. I think of what you've done, what I know you will do... No father could be prouder.​

Sweet right? Except for the fact that he's talking about the Ascension. Where she will be killing all of her ex-friends, murdering people she once cared about. That isn't sweet, that isn't Fatherly, It's creepy. It's a creepy Father-Daughter relationship. She looks so miserable, but she loves his attention. You can tell she would do anything for him.

In Doppelgangland when the mayor says "Now let's kill your little friends" the look on her face, isn't one of joy, but of fear and confusion. At that point like he say's it the beginning of their relationship, so she won't do that, she didn't want to. But by the end, she would do anything for him. She would kill Buffy, Willow, Giles, Angel, anyone. For him.

She finally has someone. As she tells Willow in Choices. She say's "I Got someone" But is he better then her having no one?

The Mayor and Faith, is not beautiful. It's not a sweet Father-Daughter relationship. A sweet Father-Daughter relationship would be Buffy/Giles. He supports her and loves her and tries to protect her at times even knowing that she is the slayer and doesn't need to be. His affect on her isn't harmful, its helpful and loving.

Just because The Mayor loves Faith doesn't make it good. Love can be evil, and harmful, and manipulative, and that's how I view their relationship. She wanted someone who loved her, and she got that. But at what cost?

This turned into kind of a rant, sorry lol. But nobody believes me when I say they're creepy or agrees rather. So I guess I'm alone in that lol.

 

[NY State of Mind]

Its not a "sweet relationship" but its still a relationship that she connected with

Growing up I had older people from my community that showed me how to provide for myself...while they weren't actually looking out for my best interests..I still looked at it as it was at the time because it was the closest to a father-son/brother-brother relationships that i had..its where I was at that point of my life and something I related too at the time...Faith felt bad hence she felt more at home with the Mayor than the Heroes..and felt the Mayor wanted her for her reguardless of the flaws...and coming from a no home like she did..all she really wanted was acceptance

so yes its not sweet but still a father-daughter relationship...not all father-daughter relationships are the same...some people mean well and some don't..if your a criminal your idealogy is gonna reflect that and the others your around

hope i explained well enough I'm not the most philisophical or poetical writer lol

 

[Taake]

Faith is a very damaged girl. She never really had anyone that cared about her until the Mayor. So, of course she loves that he dotes on her and will do anything for him.

She finally has someone. As she tells Willow in Choices. She say's "I Got someone" But is he better then her having no one?

The Mayor and Faith, is not beautiful. It's not a sweet Father-Daughter relationship. A sweet Father-Daughter relationship would be Buffy/Giles. He supports her and loves her and tries to protect her at times even knowing that she is the slayer and doesn't need to be. His affect on her isn't harmful, its helpful and loving.

Just because The Mayor loves Faith doesn't make it good. Love can be evil, and harmful, and manipulative, and that's how I view their relationship. She wanted someone who loved her, and she got that. But at what cost?

Wow, I so don't agree. I really like the Mayor and Faith's relationship - is it sweet? Not really, not in your definition of sweet at least. Not in the sense the Buffy and Giles are. Because Faith and Mayor are both incredibly different from B and G - thus their relationship becomes a sort of twisted version of the father/daughter connection.

But the intent is real, the feelings are, the Mayor gives Faith support and a pseudo family when she most needs it - he accepts her (and yes he turns her towards his ways because he's y'know evil... but I think it's been well established in the Joss-verse that demons are well capable of love. Thus the twisted version.)

So no, I don't think their relationship is creepy because though the outcome was a dark and strange kind of connection, that was simply a byproduct of the damaged people they both were.

And I definitely think the Mayor was better than Faith being alone - what would have happened to her without him? Being completely alone and feeling the way she did... I don't see a bright future in the offspring there.
At least through the Mayor she got to see what a parent could be (although, again, twisted version of it) But with the way her life seemed to have been I don't think she would have been open to a Giles.

 

[LyteHouse]

However sick and twisted the Mayor might have been, I do believe he genuinely cared for Faith.

He was completely distraught when she was missing in Graduation Day II and then later lost control when he saw her in the hospital.

Was it creepy love? Yeah, no doubt.

But don't forget, it was his feelings for Faith that eventually led to his downfall.

Buffy played on that weakness(?) and suckered him into the library for some Michael Bay-style funz.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I see a lot of things wrong in their relathionship, but I really don't think it was weird.

She was a girl who needed someone. She was always saying she's ok by herself, but she really needed someone. We know she never had a father, so he was the perfect father figure for her. Right, maybe not perfect with being evil and all.. but she saw him that way.

He lived for ages. He lost everyone he cared about, so he found Faith. Someone who lost as much as he did.

It's not weird for two people like that to meet and get attached to each other.

 

[MinwaraYana]

I'm with Taake. It's father-daughter relationship in twisted way. Faith might not be happy at first, but the Mayor's love lure her towards evil side more and more. They're like evil family. I think when he gives her the knife, it's not so different from when Spike finds someone for Dru to drink. It's a present even it's not a good thing. It's creepy, but they can't help it because they're evil. ^_^

 

[xfivebyfive]

Wow, I so don't agree. I really like the Mayor and Faith's relationship - is it sweet? Not really, not in your definition of sweet at least. Not in the sense the Buffy and Giles are. Because Faith and Mayor are both incredibly different from B and G - thus their relationship becomes a sort of twisted version of the father/daughter connection.

But the intent is real, the feelings are, the Mayor gives Faith support and a pseudo family when she most needs it - he accepts her (and yes he turns her towards his ways because he's y'know evil... but I think it's been well established in the Joss-verse that demons are well capable of love. Thus the twisted version.)

Yes his intent is real, he cares for her and loves her in his demon way. But he turns her evil. I'm not saying that he doesn't love her. He does, that's what I find creepy. That he loves her and has her do all these things. Because Faith, she isn't inherently evil, she's just a damaged little girl.

I'm with Taake. It's father-daughter relationship in twisted way. Faith might not be happy at first, but the Mayor's love lure her towards evil side more and more. They're like evil family. I think when he gives her the knife, it's not so different from when Spike finds someone for Dru to drink. It's a present even it's not a good thing. It's creepy, but they can't help it because they're evil. ^_^

Except Faith wasn't evil before going to him. She was confused, she was shaken, she was scared. She thought there was no way out but to turn evil. She'd never fit in with the scoobies, and now thought she never could. She went to the mayor and he completely turned her.

Spike and Dru are both vampires, they're both soulless and they're both demons. Faith isn't a demon, she's human, with a soul. The Mayor is not. So yes his love and affection towards her in his evil way is perfectly natural for him but its not for her. She loves it because it's the only kind she ever got. But we see in season 7 when she see's the first how damaging the relationship actually was. And she brings it up again in season 8. She trusted him and loved him, but at what cost? She almost destroyed her soul being with him, for his love.

I can't watch Faith in so much pain, putting on this act, for his love, and find it sweet. I can't find anything about their relationship to be positive. Maybe if I had watched it first before Angel I would feel differently, because I wouldn't know that she was going to be redeemed. If Faith were just evil, soulless monster, it wouldn't matter. It would be just like Min said like Spike and Dru, except Faith isnt. She's a kid seeking a father's love, from a demon. And I find that creepy.

 

[NY State of Mind]

Yeah but like I was trying to say the Mayor is Evil so of course hes gonna try and make Faith the same way cause he did care for her..he's evil how is he gonna teach her to be good

 

[dan k]

I didn't find it creepy because although the Mayor was unquestionably evil the way he acted was so funny that it was hard to see him in a purely evil light.

His feelings for Faith were real, i don't think anyone could argue with that. Sure he got her to do evil things but i didn't see it as creepy because he was the bad guy and his role was to be evil. 😀

Looking at the situation literally i suppose it could be interpreted as being a creepy relationship but i saw how the Mayor cared for her and was affected by her going into a coma. I saw how much joy he got from her being happy, of course he didn't make her happy in a good way but Faith experienced joy with the mayor which gave her a purpose and she liked that.

 

[MinwaraYana]

Except Faith wasn't evil before going to him. She was confused, she was shaken, she was scared. She thought there was no way out but to turn evil. She'd never fit in with the scoobies, and now thought she never could. She went to the mayor and he completely turned her.

I didn't say she's evil from the start. The Mayor lured her to the dark side. He really loved her and she knew it. He's evil, yeah. But he's the only one Faith had at the moment so whatever he asked her to do, she can't say no. I think we can agree about this part. 🙂

Spike and Dru are both vampires, they're both soulless and they're both demons. Faith isn't a demon, she's human, with a soul. The Mayor is not. So yes his love and affection towards her in his evil way is perfectly natural for him but its not for her. She loves it because it's the only kind she ever got. But we see in season 7 when she see's the first how damaging the relationship actually was. And she brings it up again in season 8. She trusted him and loved him, but at what cost? She almost destroyed her soul being with him, for his love.

Maybe Spike/Dru aren't the best example. I can't ever compare Faith's actions with soulless vampires' actions. What I meant to say is, they have their own way to show the affection. They can't be like Giles and Buffy relationship. They can't be like normal father in real life that would buy a doll to his daughter. He's evil Mayor and she's his right hand so what else could he give her? Not to mention the milk fulled of calcium and the pink dress. The relationship might be damaging, but for me there's good part in it too. He always made sure she's happy with what she's doing. He didn't force her.

I can't watch Faith in so much pain, putting on this act, for his love, and find it sweet. I can't find anything about their relationship to be positive. Maybe if I had watched it first before Angel I would feel differently, because I wouldn't know that she was going to be redeemed. If Faith were just evil, soulless monster, it wouldn't matter. It would be just like Min said like Spike and Dru, except Faith isnt. She's a kid seeking a father's love, from a demon. And I find that creepy.

I don't like seeing Faith in pain too. You know I love her, right? But the way I see it is, at first she thought she's having fun. Just like Angel said, after she took a life, she'll feel the power of it. She isn't a soulless monster. I'm sure she felt bad after killing someone or doing something bad for the Mayor. But then when she's with him, she had encouragement. He supported her and she felt better. It happened like this till they're separated.

 

[xfivebyfive]

Yeah but like I was trying to say the Mayor is Evil so of course hes gonna try and make Faith the same way cause he did care for her..he's evil how is he gonna teach her to be good

I know what you're saying, and for that time in her life he was the only one in her life who cared. But I still don't like their relationship because his love for her comes at a price, not one that he's setting, but it's still a price she has to pay for his love. She's lead further down this path of evil, and is left later on with even more confusion.

I didn't say she's evil from the start. The Mayor lured her to the dark side. He really loved her and she knew it. He's evil, yeah. But he's the only one Faith had at the moment so whatever he asked her to do, she can't say no. I think we can agree about this part. 🙂

Agreed.

Maybe Spike/Dru aren't the best example. I can't ever compare Faith's actions with soulless vampires' actions. What I meant to say is, they have their own way to show the affection. They can't be like Giles and Buffy relationship. They can't be like normal father in real life that would buy a doll to his daughter. He's evil Mayor and she's his right hand so what else could he give her? Not to mention the milk fulled of calcium and the pink dress. The relationship might be damaging, but for me there's good part in it too. He always made sure she's happy with what she's doing. He didn't force her.

I agree they can't ever be like Giles/Buffy and I'm not saying that they should be. But when I think sweet Father/Daughter relationship on the show I think Giles/Buffy not Faith/Mayor. There is good in there relationship I guess, I see what you're saying. Faith does get love from him, and finally feels like she has someone. And I wouldn't actually change any part of Faith's journey, because its all apart of who she is. But when I watch season 3 it breaks my heart to see them together knowing even though he loves her how damaging the relationship truly is. Does that make sense?

I don't like seeing Faith in pain too. You know I love her, right?

I know you love her 😀 Of course! Alot of what you said made sense to me, and I see what you're saying. And maybe creepy isn't exactly the right word I want to use for how I see their relationship, but I haven't been able to think of a better one.

 

[Taake]

Yes his intent is real, he cares for her and loves her in his demon way. But he turns her evil. I'm not saying that he doesn't love her. He does, that's what I find creepy. That he loves her and has her do all these things. Because Faith, she isn't inherently evil, she's just a damaged little girl.

Well yes, but that's because evil is his idea of right.
So really he wants her to prosper and to be safe like any parent, wants her to not be damaged and hurt anymore, it's just his view of things is off from how we view what's right and wrong.

The Mayor and Faith to me was always beautiful because it was a love found where you would never expect love to be.

 

[MinwaraYana]

I agree they can't ever be like Giles/Buffy and I'm not saying that they should be. But when I think sweet Father/Daughter relationship on the show I think Giles/Buffy not Faith/Mayor. There is good in there relationship I guess, I see what you're saying. Faith does get love from him, and finally feels like she has someone. And I wouldn't actually change any part of Faith's journey, because its all apart of who she is. But when I watch season 3 it breaks my heart to see them together knowing even though he loves her how damaging the relationship truly is. Does that make sense?

I get what you mean now. I can see where Faith life would be heading if she's still with the Mayor and it scares me. But I really think Mayor/Faith relationship can be Giles/Buffy 2.0 because they both have father love to Faith and Buffy, but of course, in different version. The Mayor/Faith relationship might be damaging, but I think it's as great as Giles/Buffy.

I know you love her 😀 Of course! Alot of what you said made sense to me, and I see what you're saying. And maybe creepy isn't exactly the right word I want to use for how I see their relationship, but I haven't been able to think of a better one.

ILY! 😀 I can't really say Mayor/Faith is sweet too. How about we call it "do no good" instead of "creepy"? I might think it's not creepy, but the fact is, the relationship would bring no good for our beloved character. 😱