Faith and Willow were reckless with their gift but Tara and Buffy respected their powers
- Thread starter Joshua
- Start date
DeadlyDuo
Scooby
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2016
- Messages
- 9,611
- Age
- 35
Warren's death was magical whereas Faith stabbed a guy. It would be harder to prove Willow's guilt evidence wise than it would be Faith's. Also Willow wasn't herself at the time but was hopped up on grief and dark magic.
The main reason though is plot convenience.
The main reason though is plot convenience.
Ethan Reigns
Scooby
Willow definitely disrespected her powers.
Faith's only powers were slayer powers and her sins like murdering Professor Worth and the courier with the Box of Gavrok were not part of any powers. The only power outside of slayer powers was the object bequeathed to her from Mayor Wilkins that allowed her to change places with Buffy. She broke into a weapons shop and stole stuff, also not any kind of power.
Tara misled Willow about the location of demons during a spell where the cause was made obvious in "Family" - she didn't want to be outed as a demon.
Buffy followed Faith in stealing from the weapons shop, but that was not an abuse of power. Her abuse of power was dereliction of duty in not killing Angelus and Jenny paid the price. She also preserved Dawn by killing some Knights of Byzantium when she later admitted she would have killed Dawn.
Faith's only powers were slayer powers and her sins like murdering Professor Worth and the courier with the Box of Gavrok were not part of any powers. The only power outside of slayer powers was the object bequeathed to her from Mayor Wilkins that allowed her to change places with Buffy. She broke into a weapons shop and stole stuff, also not any kind of power.
Tara misled Willow about the location of demons during a spell where the cause was made obvious in "Family" - she didn't want to be outed as a demon.
Buffy followed Faith in stealing from the weapons shop, but that was not an abuse of power. Her abuse of power was dereliction of duty in not killing Angelus and Jenny paid the price. She also preserved Dawn by killing some Knights of Byzantium when she later admitted she would have killed Dawn.
Monkey Pants
Bored Now
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2016
- Messages
- 1,206
- Age
- 35
Yes, Willow and Faith are very similar. They both let their past experiences/difficulties convince them that they should be allowed to do whatever they want. And they both do definitely disrespect their powers. Buffy and Tara rise up and do the right thing despite the problems they've had, and for the most part the respect their power.
thrasherpix
Scooby
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2016
- Messages
- 5,314
- Age
- 43
It's worth noting, IMO, that I think Buffy would've accepted Faith back in (after a time). My memory is that they were all wary but I think Buffy wanted to give her a chance once Faith came out of her coma. But Faith wasn't having it.
As for Faith going to prison...I don't think the police really had a case. Forces behind the scenes were at work. Maybe it was the Watcher's Council flexing bureaucratic muscles and other behind the scenes protocols. And the police weren't after Faith while she was protected by the Mayor, but it could be that once the Mayor was out of the picture that the cops not only stopped looking the other way but wanted to get rid of everything that had to do with the Mayor (because the Mayor scared the crap out of them and didn't want any repeats, among other possible reasons).
I suspect Buffy was cut a lot of slack (all unofficially) because the police knew Buffy made Sunnydale safer for cops (and btw, doesn't matter that Buffy was dropped as a suspect for murder, she still resisted arrest and assaulted police officers, a felony, and frankly, I think many if not most cops would be more eager to to prosecute someone who beat the crap out of a cop than someone who murdered innocents, unless of course they figured dropping the matter would save their own butts down the line later).
It's important to note that the law is not justice, and justice is not the law. It's great when law and justice coincide, but like sex & love they often don't, and can even be at cross purposes. Law is more about maintaining order so society (especially those at the top) find that life runs smoothly, and justice is a secondary concern at best. Other factors are present that are also contrary to the interest of actual justice. And that aside, it's what you can prove (or at least fake), and no way would anyone be able to prosecute Willow for the murder of Warren (though some secret government agency with their own witches and psychics and soldiers could conceivably get involved), at least not without a lot of lying (even if ironically it's because they knew the truth would never fly in a court of law). The assault on the police station, if the cops were willing to retaliate would be to shoot her dead, even if they faced conviction, because they would not brave enough to arrest a powerful "Wicca" like that after seeing her fly, shoot lightning bolts, and dissemble jails. Though if you want an explanation for it, then the witch coven in England, and perhaps even Giles, used magic and Watcher connections to get Willow out and the matter quietly dropped.
But frankly, I think a lot of it was just sloppy writing. But I know how I explain it in my head. 😛
As for Faith going to prison...I don't think the police really had a case. Forces behind the scenes were at work. Maybe it was the Watcher's Council flexing bureaucratic muscles and other behind the scenes protocols. And the police weren't after Faith while she was protected by the Mayor, but it could be that once the Mayor was out of the picture that the cops not only stopped looking the other way but wanted to get rid of everything that had to do with the Mayor (because the Mayor scared the crap out of them and didn't want any repeats, among other possible reasons).
I suspect Buffy was cut a lot of slack (all unofficially) because the police knew Buffy made Sunnydale safer for cops (and btw, doesn't matter that Buffy was dropped as a suspect for murder, she still resisted arrest and assaulted police officers, a felony, and frankly, I think many if not most cops would be more eager to to prosecute someone who beat the crap out of a cop than someone who murdered innocents, unless of course they figured dropping the matter would save their own butts down the line later).
It's important to note that the law is not justice, and justice is not the law. It's great when law and justice coincide, but like sex & love they often don't, and can even be at cross purposes. Law is more about maintaining order so society (especially those at the top) find that life runs smoothly, and justice is a secondary concern at best. Other factors are present that are also contrary to the interest of actual justice. And that aside, it's what you can prove (or at least fake), and no way would anyone be able to prosecute Willow for the murder of Warren (though some secret government agency with their own witches and psychics and soldiers could conceivably get involved), at least not without a lot of lying (even if ironically it's because they knew the truth would never fly in a court of law). The assault on the police station, if the cops were willing to retaliate would be to shoot her dead, even if they faced conviction, because they would not brave enough to arrest a powerful "Wicca" like that after seeing her fly, shoot lightning bolts, and dissemble jails. Though if you want an explanation for it, then the witch coven in England, and perhaps even Giles, used magic and Watcher connections to get Willow out and the matter quietly dropped.
But frankly, I think a lot of it was just sloppy writing. But I know how I explain it in my head. 😛
Klaus Kartoffel
Scooby
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2016
- Messages
- 610
- Age
- 42
Willow and Faith both *abused* their powers. Disrespect implies their powers were given to them by a greater benevolent entity as a gift, demanding humility and gratefulness. Willow earned her powers through her own work with little to no support until Grave through persistent ambition. Faith's powers are the legacy of powerless men wetting themselves and forcing demonic powers upon a terrified girl. Hardly possible to *disrespect* those kinds of powers.
I think it's kind of silly saying Buffy and Tara never *abused* their powers.
Tara abused her magic powers throughout S04 to Family and Family separately, The majority of Tillow is Tara abusing her social power over Willow. Tara also shuts down Dawn in Forever. If we hold Tara to her own beliefs, she abused her magic powers in Bargaining and Triangle.
Buffy abused her slayer powers in Bad Girls, Graduation Day I, Living Conditions, Hush, Sanctuary, Into The Woods, Dead Things, Normal Again & Dirty Girls. She abused her demon powers in Earshot and her social/commanding/authoritarian powers too many times to count from When She Was Bad to Chosen. A S07 main theme could be called "Buffy abuses her social power to Get It Done."
Willow wasn't in prison because she surrendered completely to Giles with the expectation that he'd kill her or lock her up in a mystical dungeon, with the torture. Giles outright told her she can't stop doing magic and she needs to learn controlling it. Hardly possible in prison.
ETA: It's also worth noting that Willow's arc doesn't stop with Grave and Faith's arc doesn't stop with Five by Five. Both worked on their issues which eventually empowered and enabled them of using their powers more responsibly. Faith came to it on AtS S04 but sadly regressed when her Daddy issues made Giles in S08 and Angel in A&FS09 her Boss. S10 shows Faith growing to own her powers eventually. Willow began to really own her powers from Goddesses & Monsters over S08 and completed in Wonderland. Before it's by turn Buffy/Giles/Xander/Anya/Tara (S6-8) who fancy themselves the Boss of Willow's powers whenever they feel it's useful/convenient/inconvenient/unpleasant/pleasant for them or the cause regardless of what Willow might want or not want or what might be good or not good for her.
I think it's kind of silly saying Buffy and Tara never *abused* their powers.
Tara abused her magic powers throughout S04 to Family and Family separately, The majority of Tillow is Tara abusing her social power over Willow. Tara also shuts down Dawn in Forever. If we hold Tara to her own beliefs, she abused her magic powers in Bargaining and Triangle.
Buffy abused her slayer powers in Bad Girls, Graduation Day I, Living Conditions, Hush, Sanctuary, Into The Woods, Dead Things, Normal Again & Dirty Girls. She abused her demon powers in Earshot and her social/commanding/authoritarian powers too many times to count from When She Was Bad to Chosen. A S07 main theme could be called "Buffy abuses her social power to Get It Done."
Willow wasn't in prison because she surrendered completely to Giles with the expectation that he'd kill her or lock her up in a mystical dungeon, with the torture. Giles outright told her she can't stop doing magic and she needs to learn controlling it. Hardly possible in prison.
ETA: It's also worth noting that Willow's arc doesn't stop with Grave and Faith's arc doesn't stop with Five by Five. Both worked on their issues which eventually empowered and enabled them of using their powers more responsibly. Faith came to it on AtS S04 but sadly regressed when her Daddy issues made Giles in S08 and Angel in A&FS09 her Boss. S10 shows Faith growing to own her powers eventually. Willow began to really own her powers from Goddesses & Monsters over S08 and completed in Wonderland. Before it's by turn Buffy/Giles/Xander/Anya/Tara (S6-8) who fancy themselves the Boss of Willow's powers whenever they feel it's useful/convenient/inconvenient/unpleasant/pleasant for them or the cause regardless of what Willow might want or not want or what might be good or not good for her.
Last edited by a moderator:
Mr Trick
Scooby
Its a fair point. Though there are examples of both Buffy and Tara, along side every character on the show making mistakes. That's part of what makes it a complex and exciting show.
Given Faith's background I tend to give more of a pass than some, but its true that she still went way too far and took things to an extreme when there were other options. In Willow's case again I think its an age thing and the fact that the magic just gave her the chance to be something she had never been before and it went to her head. Human error.
Given Faith's background I tend to give more of a pass than some, but its true that she still went way too far and took things to an extreme when there were other options. In Willow's case again I think its an age thing and the fact that the magic just gave her the chance to be something she had never been before and it went to her head. Human error.