Faith and Xander's behavior in Revelations
- Thread starter Joshua
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Robb Stark
King in the North
Yeah, it bugged me too.
Re-watching the series, it does get a little tiring how many times they run with the "Angel is misunderstood because he's a vampire". I mean, I get it, and it makes sense, but over the course of both series they do it with Buffy, Xander, Faith, Wesley, Fred, Gunn, Kate and more. It just gets...tired after a while. So the whole attitude from Faith of "well, he's a vampire, gotta kill him", and Xander going with it even though he knows Angel isn't evil (even if he doesn't want to admit it) was irritating.
And I was fed up with Xander by this point of S3. I never felt like he was acting the way he was because of altruistic reasons. I thought it was purely out of jealously and that he wasn't just waiting for Angel to screw up, he actually wanted it to happen. That being said, on the pro-Xander side he does change it around when Faith starts going too far, and a few episodes later, "Amends", he's pretty awesome.
Re-watching the series, it does get a little tiring how many times they run with the "Angel is misunderstood because he's a vampire". I mean, I get it, and it makes sense, but over the course of both series they do it with Buffy, Xander, Faith, Wesley, Fred, Gunn, Kate and more. It just gets...tired after a while. So the whole attitude from Faith of "well, he's a vampire, gotta kill him", and Xander going with it even though he knows Angel isn't evil (even if he doesn't want to admit it) was irritating.
And I was fed up with Xander by this point of S3. I never felt like he was acting the way he was because of altruistic reasons. I thought it was purely out of jealously and that he wasn't just waiting for Angel to screw up, he actually wanted it to happen. That being said, on the pro-Xander side he does change it around when Faith starts going too far, and a few episodes later, "Amends", he's pretty awesome.
BuffyElevated
Scooby
Well, no, it didn't bother me. I thought they both lept to conclusions really quickly, but with Angel's (recent) history, can you really blame them?? I mean just a few months earlier, Angel had killed Ms. Calendar, sent his gang of vampires to kill them all, kidnapped and tortured Giles, and then tried to destroy the world. I can easily see why they wouldn't trust him. Especially since Buffy hadn't told anyone about his return.
Gum Gnome33
[No message]
It annoyed me a bit, I agreed with Xander about what Angelus did to Jenny etc but he is Angel now he isn't harming anyone and is trying to help the gang, Xander knows Angel helped them out so many times and plus he was meant to be Buffy's best friend so he should of just left Angel alone, I agree about being angry that Buffy didn't tell him Angel was back cause after they went through and were meant to best friends but still there was no need to be like "Oh let's kill him"
Faith I can kind of agree with why she wanted to kill him, all she heard was negative stuff about Angel and she has no idea what it was like for Buffy and being in love. But yeah Xander annoyed me.
Faith I can kind of agree with why she wanted to kill him, all she heard was negative stuff about Angel and she has no idea what it was like for Buffy and being in love. But yeah Xander annoyed me.
Wild At Heart
the moon lights his way
I have to admit it did bother me alot. I was really frustrated because I feel like they were both acting out of jealousy & neither one of them ever really understood Buffy & Angel's relationship. This is one of the eps where Xander really annoyed me & he mostly always annoyed me when it came to his jealousy of Angel.
white avenger
white avenger
At least Angel got to give Riley one good, well deserved a** kicking. I kept hoping that Soldier Boy would show up in Season 7, after Spike's chip was removed, so spike could do the same thing. And as far as Xander was concerned, chip or no chip, Spike did at least get to pop hin in the head once, even if Angel never did.
As for Faith, at that time, Angel was just another vamp to her, but Xander has always seemed more than a little jealous of his relationship with Buffy, and Angelus in Season 2 only served to reenforce the feeling.
As for Faith, at that time, Angel was just another vamp to her, but Xander has always seemed more than a little jealous of his relationship with Buffy, and Angelus in Season 2 only served to reenforce the feeling.
itssmiletime
Potential
I'm gonna play devil's advocate here.
During the Angelus arc, he had killed Jenny Calendar and numerous students, Giles was tortured severely. To me, it has absolutely nothing to do with jealously. Really, Xander is dating Cordelia, and kissing Willow. Where the hell does jealousy come into it?
Angelus was a savage murderer, a sadist. So now he is back, with a soul. People aren't going to accept it instantly at face value. Sure, Xander shouldn't have spied on Buffy, no denial there. But Xander's perspective is completely understandable, having to put up with the face of the man who murdered a beloved teacher and friend, classmates, tortured your father figure. I think it shows a great deal of favoritism when fans excuse Buffy for running away for three months, emphasing on what Buffy went through, yet they don't do the same for Xander.
During the Angelus arc, he had killed Jenny Calendar and numerous students, Giles was tortured severely. To me, it has absolutely nothing to do with jealously. Really, Xander is dating Cordelia, and kissing Willow. Where the hell does jealousy come into it?
Angelus was a savage murderer, a sadist. So now he is back, with a soul. People aren't going to accept it instantly at face value. Sure, Xander shouldn't have spied on Buffy, no denial there. But Xander's perspective is completely understandable, having to put up with the face of the man who murdered a beloved teacher and friend, classmates, tortured your father figure. I think it shows a great deal of favoritism when fans excuse Buffy for running away for three months, emphasing on what Buffy went through, yet they don't do the same for Xander.
L
Living Dead Boy
This.
Thank you!! People seem to not be objective because Angel is their favorite or something. Look at it from Xander's or Giles' point of view. Jenny is dead because of him, Buffy was hurt because of him, the world almost ended because of him, and yet everyone is so quick to forget. People give Willow smack for almost ending the world, people give Spike smack for attempting to rape Buffy (even though they really do deserve the smack), but yet people don't give Angel any smack (ok some people do but as shown by this thread a lot of people don't). Ok, I'll admit, the show was really quick to forget about both Willow's and Spike's actions, which is not okay, but when they actually do it right and don't forget all about Angel's action, people complain??
I completely understand where both Xander and Faith are coming from. If I was Xander, there would be no way in hell I'd forgive Angel, it's not just about jealousy anymore. And as for Faith, she's a vampire slayer, her job is to kill vampires, so really she's actually doing her job, something that Buffy was never able to do with neither Spike nor Angel.
Robb Stark
King in the North
Um...what? Angel was one of the only incidents among the Scooby gang that was actually dealt with. What's annoying is that his is one of the most clear-cut examples of things not being his fault. I say the same about Spike as well for the things he did without a soul (although I'm aware that there are those who don't). I've been here for a while now and until recently I rarely, if ever, saw people call Willow out.
Angel gets crap from the fan base because he's one of the only characters who actually takes responsibility, even if he shouldn't have too. Spike doesn't really do that until S5 of Angel and Willow never does.
And Xander knows there are extenuating circumstances, at that point he just chooses not to see them. He knows that Angel wasn't at fault for what happened with Jenny Calender. The show makes it crystal clear that "Angel" and "Angelus" are two very separate entities. I mean hell, Giles understands that. He has more right to blind hate than anyone and yet he instead opts to assess the situation rationally and realistically.
I really, truly do not understand the argument that Angel is responsible for what Angelus does. I just don't get, and no one has ever articulated it to me in a way that makes me understand. The common refrain seems to be "oh well he killed Ms. Calender!" and then just completely ignore the circumstances. I'm not trying to be mean, but that's what seems to be happening here. If Spike had killed someone when The First had him brainwashed, it wouldn't have been his fault when he was no longer brainwashed. It's the same situation with Angel.
I understand the concern about the potential for Angelus to re-emerge, but it's a little hard to take Xander seriously when his perspective has been so colored in regards to Buffy for so long. As for Faith, she was perfectly aware of what Angel meant to Buffy and didn't even attempt to talk to her about her suspicious. That's crap. If Giles can look at the situation rationally then so can Xander and Faith.
If you've paid any attention to my posts over the period I've been here, it's no secret that I'm a big Angel fan. He is my favorite character. But that doesn't mean I'm blind to him, just like I'm not blind to Buffy because I like her, or Spike because I like him. In this case though, I think Angel gets an incredibly raw deal from some parts of the fan base.
haha it's actually funny because we basicly agree on everything. I don't know if you read the thread recently about Angel not being at fault for the things he did as Angelus, but I posted that I don't believe that he is at fault. The reason I was getting irritated is that people tend to use a complete different logic depending on characters. I strongly feel that if you think that Spike is at fault for Buffy's rape, than you should feel that Angel is at fault for killing Jenny, just as if you don't think they are at fault when they didn't have a soul, than it should apply to both of them. So really we agree, I'm very aware that Angel is the only one that gets a nice fallow up story fallowing him being a killer as Angelus; my complaint was more toward the fact that neither Willow nor Spike get a fallow up story (I think that was just bad writing).
It might not look like it, but I'm actually a pretty big Angel fan, I love that he does take responsibility even if he's not really at fault, it reminds me a bit of myself. My post probably didn't sound much like that because I tend to play a bit of a devil's advocate, here I wanted to focus more my post on Xander's feelings and not on my personal views on Angel. I completely agree that he isn't at fault.
That being said, as for Xander, I'll maintain my opinion that he shouldn't have forgiven him. I get that he should forgive him, but if a man killed someone I cared for and hurt my best friend, no matter how much it wasn't their fault I'd still hate them even if it's wrong. For example, if someone hit my best friend in a car accident and killed her, or hurt her pretty badly, even if it was an accident, I would absolutely know that I shouldn't blame them, but a part of me would still put the blame on them. It's easier to blame someone for a tragedy instead of trying to let it go, it's simply human nature. For example, a lot or parents that lose a kid end up in divorce simply because they can't forgive each other for not "saving" their kids even if the rationale is illogical, it's easier then accepting the truth. And Faith, well Faith was just being Faith, she doesn't understand that a man can mean that much to someone.
R
Robb Stark
Awesome :)