Faith in Salvage

[Tome]

Alright so i've been arguing with a friend about something in 'Salvage'. Faith goes to take care of Angelus, and she get surrounded by him and The Beast, she then fight The Beast.

Now the whole argument was about how I always felt that Faith(after trying a bit) just gave up and started to act like with Angel in 5x5 and was letting The Beast kill her. Because she still had somewhat of a death wish. Not only do I feel that way during the scene, but later on when she gets to Wesley's app, she goes to take a shower and smash the wall, which I always have seen as not only held up rage but also that she was pissed at how she WANTED to die, she gave up. She hated herself for it.

Now my friend disagree and says she just couldn't go toe to toe with someone as strong as The Beast.

I'm curious on the general opinion about this. What you all think about this?

 

[xfivebyfive]

I dont think Faith wanted to die or was giving up in 'Salvage' she wasn't letting the beast kill her she was getting her butt kicked. At that point it wasn't about her not wanting to live because she broke out of Jail to save Angelus. She wanted to repay Angel for saving her by saving him, why would she kill herself? She was overpowered.

The scene in Release. Thats the first time we see Faith alone. The first time she's alone since getting out of prison. She just had her butt handed to her in the fight all the self hating thoughts running through her head about losing the fight and failing that's what I see when I watch that scene. Not because she wanted to die but because she had failed.

 

[MinwaraYana]

I, either, don't think she wanted to die. If she wanted to die, she could have found a way to do it in jail already. Like Katie said, she really can't fight strong beast like The Beast. I bet Buffy can't too. It's like he has no weakness until Angelus figured it out. And about the wall banging, she just hated to lose. Faith always hates to lose.

 

[Connor Holtz]

I, either, don't think she wanted to die. If she wanted to die, she could have found a way to do it in jail already. Like Katie said, she really can't fight strong beast like The Beast. I bet Buffy can't too. It's like he has no weakness until Angelus figured it out. And about the wall banging, she just hated to lose. Faith always hates to lose.

I agree. In the very episode 'Salvage' Faith is attacked by an agent of The First. Had Faith wanted to die, she would have let the woman kill her.

 

[Taake]

Now my friend disagree and says she just couldn't go toe to toe with someone as strong as The Beast.

I definitely think think that she just couldn't go toe to toe with the Beast. She had been out of the action for quite some time and was 'rusty' if you will. Not to mention that the guy was made of rock... I simply think he was too strong for her.

 

[Tome]

My point wasn't that she wanted to die beforehand(like in prison or before the fight actually happened), but when she realized she didn't have much chance of winning... She gave up and didn't feel bad about dying, she was welcoming it... That's why I always felt like she's not even fightning back at one point in the fight, she just wanna end it.

And as you said Katie, the 'self-hating thoughts', that's part welcoming death during the fight. She was pissed at herself because she still felt THAT way, while she wanted to change. When she destroy the wall, it's her being enraged at that part of her.

Thanks for your replies everyone though! Keep it up 😛

---------- Post added at 12:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:03 AM ----------

I mean... Come on! Even Angelus realize she isn't going all out. That she stopped trying... She did worse than Gunn against it(to say the least). You can see it on her face, in her reactions... She was giving up.

 

[xfivebyfive]

I guess that could have gone through her mind, she was getting destroyed. The Beast was kicking her butt thoroughly. So at one point, I could see maybe her giving up. But I don't think it was because she wanted to die, more that she was too hurt to keep fighting. She didnt have it in her.

Faith has a lot of self hatred thats what came pouring out in that shower scene. Her anger over losing, over being broken, and once in that state of mind all her other anger issues about herself. She let loose and it all just came pouring out.

But I can believe in a moment of weakness she wanted the fight to just be over, she'd given up because she was broken and losing. But not that she stopped fighting because she wanted to die. Or that she fought less because she wanted The Beast to kill her.

 

[Tome]

I guess that could have gone through her mind, she was getting destroyed. The Beast was kicking her butt thoroughly. So at one point, I could see maybe her giving up. But I don't think it was because she wanted to die, more that she was too hurt to keep fighting. She didnt have it in her.

Faith has a lot of self hatred thats what came pouring out in that shower scene. Her anger over losing, over being broken, and once in that state of mind all her other anger issues about herself. She let loose and it all just came pouring out.

But I can believe in a moment of weakness she wanted the fight to just be over, she'd given up because she was broken and losing. But not that she stopped fighting because she wanted to die. Or that she fought less because she wanted The Beast to kill her.

But... Faith is stronger than Gunn, Wesley, Connor or even Angel. How the hell did she just get destroyed so easily? They all lasted at least longer than her. If it was Buffy, she'd have given the Beast a good match... Sure he was made of rock, but Adam was really tough too. The same can be said of Caleb, he was probably as strong as the Beast and Buffy finally killed him after a while. It just make no sense to me that Faith would be defeated so easily. He played with her.

This is why I draw this conclusion. She stopped trying/fighting back at some point.

 

[xfivebyfive]

But... Faith is stronger than Gunn, Wesley, Connor or even Angel. How the hell did she just get destroyed so easily? They all lasted at least longer than her. If it was Buffy, she'd have given the Beast a good match... Sure he was made of rock, but Adam was really tough too. The same can be said of Caleb, he was probably as strong as the Beast and Buffy finally killed him after a while. It just make no sense to me that Faith would be defeated so easily. He played with her.

This is why I draw this conclusion. She stopped trying/fighting back at some point.

I dont think Buffy could have done any better. The Beast kicked everyones butt, Connor, Angel, Gunn, Wesley. And they were all fighting against him together. Faith was fighting The Beast and Angelus alone. Buffy was only able to defeat Caleb with the Scythe, which would not have worked on the beast. Adam, was lame stop bringing him up Tom lol 😛 Nothing could defeat the beast except the weapon made from himself that Angel uses. That is the only weapon we know of that could even hurt him.

Plus Faith has been in prison for the past two years, its not like she's been in a battle for awhile. She's basically just thrown back in to fight one of the most powerful demons.

 

[Connor Holtz]

But... Faith is stronger than Gunn, Wesley, Connor or even Angel. How the hell did she just get destroyed so easily? They all lasted at least longer than her. If it was Buffy, she'd have given the Beast a good match... Sure he was made of rock, but Adam was really tough too. The same can be said of Caleb, he was probably as strong as the Beast and Buffy finally killed him after a while. It just make no sense to me that Faith would be defeated so easily. He played with her.

This is why I draw this conclusion. She stopped trying/fighting back at some point.

First, Buffy killed Caleb with the scythe and he was made of flesh. Second, none of the other AI team members took blows Faith did. Faith was fairing well against The Beast until she got a direct punch to the chest and third, Faith was fighting BOTH The Beast AND Angelus. It was because she was distracted that The Beast was able to land that game changing blow.

EDIT: Kate already said all this, great post! 😀

 

[Eleftheria]

I never thought Faith wanted to die when she fought the Beast. I always thought that when she saw The Beast...she must have been like :"oh S**t!!!" I would definitely have said that in her place. She goes there willing to do anything to save Angel's soul and she finds Angelus and an invincible enemy with him.

I absolutely love the season 4 episodes with Faith. She is the reason those episodes are so great. However, I would like to see BOTH Faith and Buffy fight. Perhaps Buffy vs Angelus(since they have met before, it would be interesting to see them fight again after 5 years) and Faith vs the Beast.

I think Faith did quite well, if we consider the fact she was out of business and no training for 3 years. She didn't give up IMO, I think she didn't know what to do. The Beast was so much stronger. She hasn't had any training in prison. she stood her ground quite well. I don't know if Buffy could have done any better. Maybe she could have lasted a little longer. But the key in the end was Angelus no matter which Slayer would fight the Beast. And as for the bath scene, it was like "They kicked my ass, I am tired, I am hurt but I will go on damn it!!!".

 

[TheVoid68]

I felt that she was mad because she felt she'd failed Angel. As for the fight - the Beast was just too strong for her, and she was out of practice to boot.

 

[white avenger]

Now the whole argument was about how I always felt that Faith(after trying a bit) just gave up and started to act like with Angel in 5x5 and was letting The Beast kill her. Because she still had somewhat of a death wish.

Now my friend disagree and says she just couldn't go toe to toe with someone as strong as The Beast.

I think that the main reasons that Faith was beaten so badly by the Beast was her old familiar impulsiveness, and the fact that she was a;most totally out of practice. Just like Buffy told the Potentials, it was pretty obvious that she was fighting in a situation that was totally in the Beast's favor. She should have gotten out of there as quickly as possible and picked someplace more to her advantage for their rematch. As powerful as the Beast was, he didn't strike me as being particularly fast on his feet. Certainly nowhere near as fast as Faith.

Another factor, equally important, was that Faith was far from being at the top of her game at that particular time. She was just plain out of practice fighting anything more formidable than overweight prison inmates. Hardly the sort of thing to keep a Slayer in practice.