Faith vs Buffy

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Enemies

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Sineya
Hi, I have been chatting with Chosen Enemy and thought it would be a nice idea to have a thread to discuss general topics about Faith and combine our knowledge of her in order to perhaps find out things we may not have known before.

E.g
What makes her different from Buffy?
Why is she rogue?
What do you like/dislike about her?
Who do you like more: Faith or Buffy and Why?
Favourites about Faith.
Opinions of Faith.

and other similar discussions...

Hopefully everyone will have different ideas and insights about Faith and it would be interesting to see how other people percieve her as a character.

I'll start us off:

Personally I prefer Faith because she is the polar opposite of Buffy and not such a girly girl. She's impulsive, irriational and intruiging. She hasn't been as unfortunate in life as Buffy but she copes. She prefers to be indepent and doesn't need the company of friends in order to slay. I've always wondered if Buffy would be the same if she were in Faith's position? *thoughts/ideas please*

I think she's a rogue obviously because of the bum deal she's had with her watchers but also because she seems fairly happy to get stuck in by herself. I think her loneliness drove her towards a relationship with the Mayor, as seeing Buffy with her friends and family brought it home to Faith that she has no adult bonds in her life.

I like her fiesty fierceness but dislike the lack of episodes she's in and although I like Buffy a lot Faith is my favourite. She appeals more to my level as she's not as straight laced and egotistical as Buffy can be at times. With Faith what you see is what you get. She slays hard and parties hard. 🙂

My favourite part of Faith's BtVS existence is almost all the episodes but I love the fight scene between her and Buffy (for a minute there it looks like Faith can take her) but I also like the appearances she makes in Buffy's dreams after annnnnnddd finally when she awakes from her coma and tracks Buffy to UCS 'try it red and you'll lose an arm' brilliant.

My only opinion is we should see more of Faith.

Ok so hopefully people will join in this discussion and share their thoughts 😀
 
K
Konoe
[No message]
Buffy would kick faiths **** in i think. "am gone kill both you slayers for this"
 
I don't really like Faith...at all.

The show is in a world where every villain is evil simply because they don't have much of a choice. Faith on the other hand, has a choice and she has a soul. What bothers me is that I never really understood why Faith did the things she did and why she was the way she was. What was her motive? She just hated Buffy? Out of jealously perhaps. I just want to shake Faith and say, "What is your childhood trauma?!!" LOL.

And even if she had a rough past or childhood that does not mean she has to kill people. I mean really? When I'm sad I cry, when Faith is down she kills/beats the shit outta people and robs stores. Again in the words of Cordy, "Whatever is causing the Joan Collins 'tude, deal with it. Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever, but get over it." I must say...S2 Cordy is very wise 😀
 
F
forget
[No message]
OhWow said:
I don't really like Faith...at all.

The show is in a world where every villain is evil simply because they don't have much of a choice. Faith on the other hand, has a choice and she has a soul. What bothers me is that I never really understood why Faith did the things she did and why she was the way she was. What was her motive? She just hated Buffy? Out of jealously perhaps. I just want to shake Faith and say, "What is your childhood trauma?!!" LOL.

And even if she had a rough past or childhood that does not mean she has to kill people. I mean really? When I'm sad I cry, when Faith is down she kills/beats the shit outta people and robs stores. Again in the words of Cordy, "Whatever is causing the Joan Collins 'tude, deal with it. Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever, but get over it." I must say...S2 Cordy is very wise 😀
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I feel sorry for Faith.
I know a lot of people hate her for the way she acts but I kinda understand the way she lashes out at people. By the little tidbits of information we get about Faith's past, we know her mom was a drunken whore who was never around very much, and never there to nurture Faith. I get the impression that Faith grew up in a rough neighborhood, and probably had to learn to defend herself early in life, and this kind of life programmed her to believe that lashing out was how she was supposed to deal with her problems. She wanted to make people believe she was tough, and that nothing bothered her. Speaking from experience... People like that usually are cut very deeply, but don't want others to know how badly they suffer because they are proud, or they perceive showing emotion as being weak.
Faith was definitely not as fortunate as Buffy was. She didn't have a family who loved and cared about her, and her Watcher was killed early into her career as a Slayer. She had major abandonment and trust issues, and for these reasons I always felt pity for her.
 
Seeing Red
Seeing Red
[No message]
Faith was good, but could have been better...Eliza Dushku overacted most of the time and it came off as cheesy

I've always liked the character of Faith though because she was so different from Buffy, Buffy always did what was right, while Faith was flawed and it was fun to see her change. However, one of the flaws in the story was after BtVS season 3 we only saw Faith in little story arcs. Then in season 7, which was supposed to show us "good" Faith as a recurring character, she was pushed to the background (like so many important characters) for all those annoying-ass Potentials...more reason to hate season 7.

After season 3 of Buffy, Faith should have spent more time on Angel, I always felt the Scoobies were never as accepting as the Fang Gang. Angel has always been a more forgiving person, when Faith was around him and he always was able to find the best in her, but when she was around Buffy they were like gasoline and water

Overall, I liked the character, I wished they could have found a better actor than Eliza Dusku, but she was ok. I do wish she spent more time on Angel so we could get to know her better, and her character in BtVS season 7 was wasted, IMO

Damn, I wanted that Faith spin-off to happen lol
 
I don't dig on the Faith at all. I'm not really a fan of Eliza Dushku as an actress and I thought the character was poorly thought out and cliche. I don't hate her, but I'm of the opinion that Faith was one of the lamer parts of BtVS/AtS.
 
I hated Faith when I first watched Buffy as I thought she was just rude and ungrateful a lot of the time. She just appeared very stereotypical and bland. After a few re-watches though I've realised there's more to her character than that. Not enough for me to like her, but she's not one dimensional either.
 
First time watching, I hated Faith. She was bad. She wanted kill people.

Now, I kinda love her. She's complicated, and there's much more to see if you look carefully. I kinda wish she was explored more, some flashbacks from her childhood, which was, from what we heard, kinda disturbing for her. I'm quite open for Faith spin-off. Plus, Eliza is an awesome actress, she has this rough edge Faith needed.
 
O
OhWow
About the flashbacks
I think naturally everyone loves Buffy obviously because the show is based around her. I personally love the chemistry between her and Angel and never really warmed to Riley. I for one would have loved a faith spin-off to explore her character more. I think Faith's also portrayed well in the novels. Is she a part of the season 8 comics?
 
Hale Caesar said:
Faith was good, but could have been better...Eliza Dushku overacted most of the time and it came off as cheesy


After season 3 of Buffy, Faith should have spent more time on Angel, I always felt the Scoobies were never as accepting as the Fang Gang. Angel has always been a more forgiving person, when Faith was around him and he always was able to find the best in her, but when she was around Buffy they were like gasoline and water
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Absolutely. Angel was definitely more forgiving than Buffy, but Faith really screwed with Buffy's life. I would be pretty mad if somebody stole my body...Buffy gave her many chances to join the gang and fight with her, but Faith just didn't seem interested. Angel would be more forgiving b/c he has been down redemption road before and he knows how difficult it is.

HisMrs said:
I feel sorry for Faith.
I know a lot of people hate her for the way she acts but I kinda understand the way she lashes out at people. By the little tidbits of information we get about Faith's past, we know her mom was a drunken whore who was never around very much, and never there to nurture Faith. I get the impression that Faith grew up in a rough neighborhood, and probably had to learn to defend herself early in life, and this kind of life programmed her to believe that lashing out was how she was supposed to deal with her problems. She wanted to make people believe she was tough, and that nothing bothered her. Speaking from experience... People like that usually are cut very deeply, but don't want others to know how badly they suffer because they are proud, or they perceive showing emotion as being weak.
Faith was definitely not as fortunate as Buffy was. She didn't have a family who loved and cared about her, and her Watcher was killed early into her career as a Slayer. She had major abandonment and trust issues, and for these reasons I always felt pity for her.
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I agree with you. And perhaps I am just a little too hard on Faith. I think Joss and Co. really dropped the ball on this character though. Like [MENTION=9532]PrincessBuffy16[/MENTION] said, there should have been some flashbacks to show the audience what went wrong with Faith. That way I suppose I would be able to understand her a bit more.
 
Well Faith I have always liked her more. I think she strides and I say this because yes she did some bad things but we didn't hear her complain about it all the time. That is why I prefer her she never had it easy and she had her problems some she created for herself but once Angel helped her she admitted them and tried to fix them and move on.

I like Faith more overall and over the years I have come to really dislike Buffy especially when I watch other fandoms and see that some of the female characters have it way worse and don't complain half as much. Buffy to me had it easier than she realized she had her mother, her friends some people don't get that.

Faith is rogue because she beats to her own drum. I like that about her as well. Plus I find Faith more believable as the slayer. Overall Faith becomes more amazing and it is a shame we don't get more of her.
 
K
Konoe
[No message]
I like Buffy more, but I do really love faith. I dislike her in Buffy season 3-4, but I adore her in angel and BTVS season 7. In the first seasons of buffy, i agree that she comes off as kinda a cliche, but I think she grows into a much more interesting character on angel. I would have liked it for her to have become more of a part of the fang gang, cause she fit alot better with their dynamic.
 
I also love the way that when Buffy is set on killing Faith to cure Angel in Graduation Pt.1 she takes on some of Faith's persona with her dress sense and attitude 🙂
 
I've been thinking a lot about Faith as a character. I don't like her much, but I sort of get her depth and that's why I have many thoughts about her.

I've always seen Faith as Buffy's mirror. What Buffy could have been. What Buffy is afraid to be. We have two sides here - light and darkness, which is clear which one is who. I think Faith is a very scared girl. She's been let down many times. By her mother, then by Buffy, and then also what she felt as the whole world. She did try being a good person, a good Slayer. She tried to be Buffy even though it's not what she is. I think she's not only jealous of Buffy's life, but also of who she is.

On Buffy's side, I think Buffy feels that there comes a girl who wants to steal her life. And I'm thinking about it, and think in some way Buffy is jealous of Faith too. Because he has things Buffy doesn't. Most of all, Faith IS the real Slayer (as of before Willow's spell in Chosen). And Buffy, as much as she tries to say she wants normal life, not Slayer life, I think she does want to be THE Slayer. She's afraid Faith will come first, because she is the real slayer around here.

But Faith doesn't see it this way. It's always easier to think that the neighbor's side is greener. So Faith is kind of whiny, IMO. Right, she had a hard life. But did she stop thinking that Buffy, even though she has so much in life, is not having the easiest life either. In some way, Faith thought that being Buffy - Slayer, beautiful, lovable with friends, boyfriend, family, even school - is the key to happiness. That's why she tried to be more like Buffy. But she doesn't want to be like Buffy, because that's not her. She should be Faith and deal with that fact. She's not Buffy and never will be.

Faith wants love and understanding. She never got that from anyone in her entire life. Then she comes to Sunnydale, looking for it, being a bit fake as though she enjoys life. Maybe she wanted to start over. Her watcher has been killed. Her watcher, who was probably the only person she had in the world, left her. Just like her mother (maybe her father too), just like when she arrives into Sunnydale. She feels Buffy is in every word everybody spits out, even though she's not the official Slayer. Faith wants to be that official Slayer, and she is. But it doesn't seem like it. I don't think she thinks people accept her. She's full of self loathing. Because if enough people don't like you or against you, you start thinking: "hey, maybe I don't worth anything. Maybe they're right for not liking me and for shutting me out". We see it when she swaps bodies with Buffy, she hits herself (her face with Buffy underneath it), because she hates herself. I think that once she understands that she doesn't need or should be Buffy and start loving herself without complaining about how suck your life is, she will be happy. For that she HAS to stop whining and start working being what she wants to be without stealing somebody else's body/life.
 
I think Chosen Enemy has a good point about a Buffy/Faith jealousy. I think this script excerpt from Enemies season 3, sums it up nicely:

BUFFY
Why, Faith? What's in it for you?


FAITH
What isn't? You know, I come to
Sunnydale, I'm a Slayer, I do my job
kicking ass better than anyone, and
what do I hear about, everywhere I go?

She leans in close.


FAITH (cont'd)
Buffy. So I slay, and behave, and do
the good-little-girl routine, and who
does everyone thank? Buffy.


BUFFY
That's not my fault.


FAITH
Everybody asks, "why can't you be
more like Buffy," but did anyone ever
ask if you could be more like me?


ANGEL
I know I didn't.


FAITH
You get the Watcher, you get the mom,
you get your little Scooby Gang, what
do I get? Jack squat! This was supposed
to be my town!

(with thanks from http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/scripts/051_scri.html)
 
Chosen Enemy said:
I've always seen Faith as Buffy's mirror. What Buffy could have been. What Buffy is afraid to be. We have two sides here - light and darkness, which is clear which one is who. I think Faith is a very scared girl. She's been let down many times. By her mother, then by Buffy, and then also what she felt as the whole world. She did try being a good person, a good Slayer. She tried to be Buffy even though it's not what she is. I think she's not only jealous of Buffy's life, but also of who she is.
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I remember Joss saying on a DVD extra that they wanted to show how dark a "bad" slayer could go, but didn't want to risk Buffy's character, so...Faith. She represents the "dark side" of slaying and Buffy, while Kendra showed the "good side" - with Buffy being the best mix of both - good, but not someone who mindleslly obeyed.

Chosen Enemy said:
Faith wants love and understanding. She never got that from anyone in her entire life. Then she comes to Sunnydale, looking for it, being a bit fake as though she enjoys life. Maybe she wanted to start over. Her watcher has been killed. Her watcher, who was probably the only person she had in the world, left her. Just like her mother (maybe her father too), just like when she arrives into Sunnydale. She feels Buffy is in every word everybody spits out, even though she's not the official Slayer. Faith wants to be that official Slayer, and she is. But it doesn't seem like it. I don't think she thinks people accept her. She's full of self loathing. Because if enough people don't like you or against you, you start thinking: "hey, maybe I don't worth anything. Maybe they're right for not liking me and for shutting me out". We see it when she swaps bodies with Buffy, she hits herself (her face with Buffy underneath it), because she hates herself. I think that once she understands that she doesn't need or should be Buffy and start loving herself without complaining about how suck your life is, she will be happy. For that she HAS to stop whining and start working being what she wants to be without stealing somebody else's body/life.
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Yeah, I read this really great essay on Slayage called something like "Buffy, Faith and Bad Faith" regarding the Sartrean concept of "bad faith," my understanding of which is basically allowing external ideas, opinions and such to define yourself. We see her intense self disgust both in S4 Buffy and then on Angel when she keeps repeating that she's bad and he should kill her. Also, NOT to say the whole body switching was ok, but Faith didn't know what that thing did.

I think a lot of people would have cared more about Faith if we had seen more backstory on her to explain or help us understand why she was that broken. I mean, it really hit me when she was in Buffy's body and Riley said "i love you" and she absolutely flipped out. This is a girl who has and can easily kill, has had things try to kill her numerous times, but what terrifies her is emotional intimacy.

But, yeah, I love Faith. I just wish we had gotten her spin off show to see what she had gone through before she came to Sunnydale. Also, i think her and Angel are really good together (not romantically), but because they both have similar issues.
 
I've always liked Faith. She's a very complex and interesting character in many ways. I think that Faith's speech in Sanctuary sums up the differences in Faith and Buffy.

"You have no idea what its like when nothing that you do matters because nothing makes sense."

I know I didn't get the quote exactly right but this is the essence, anyway I would have loved to see a Faith spin off, but according to Joss Whedon Eliza Dushku was already under contract for Tru Calling and by the time that show was cancelled none of the networks were interested in the show.
 
just an add on post. If anyone wants to get more of a feeling for Faith I recommend reading the Faith Trials novel. Although its an episode synopsis book it goes into depth about Faiths thoughts and feelings.
 
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