Faithgs lingering humanity and buffy.

[CordelliasHeart]

Ok Faith is PSYCHO No arguments there... But buffy doesnt seem to feel that Faiths decision to risk her life and her chance to flee to save those people trapped in the church might be a sign theirs still humanity left in her.

 

[Blaze]

I want to disagree that Faith is a psycho. By psycho I'm guessing that you are referring to a psychopath. Faith clearly shows the symptoms of being a psychopath in s3, but because she shows remorse in later seasons, she by default is not a psychopath. I think Faith's situation is very complicated. I'm not condoning her actions, but she did go through a lot which led her to get ticked off, this could happen to anyone in the right circumstances. Because change occur, her delinquency was not due to psychopathy, even if she demonstrated psychopathic symptoms. It is possible to be a killer without necessarily being a psychopath. In the case of Faith, because she never had a support system, I'd lean toward the fact that she never learnt to differentiate from right and wrong behaviours, a classical delinquent characteristics, which made it easier to flip. The mayor bringing in that structure that she was lacking would have meant that she could very easily be manipulated into fallowing the mayors ideology. We studied those type of behaviours in neuroscience, and although I may be wrong, that is my take on her behaviours.

Now for Buffy and Faith, I do think Buffy still sees some humanity in Faith, it was demonstrated on a multitude of occasions in s3 in the leading to the events where Buffy almost kills Faith. When in the hospital, it is clear that Buffy still has love for Faith. My memory is a bit fuzzy on the exactitude of the church scene, but at that point Buffy has every right to despise Faith, I don't think that means there isn't this one tiny part of her that still believes Faith could make a 180 turn. In s7, I actually find Buffy very forgiving of Faith, I don't think she ever entirely lost that feeling that Faith had humanity left in her.

 

[EffyStonem]

I don't think that Faith is "psycho", however she has a very real and deep-rooted darkness in her that she has to learn to control.

Buffy knows that Faith is not 100% evil, however after the ways in which Faith has victimised Buffy, it's hardly surprising that Buffy thinks the worst of Faith for quite some time. One gesture is not going to make everything all better.

I think Buffy starts to regain a tiny bit of belief in Faith's humanity when Faith turns herself into the police in AtS. Then, when Faith resurfaces in Season 7, Buffy seems willing to give her a chance and only turns on her when the entire gang turns on Buffy herself.

 

[CordelliasHeart]

"Buffy I'm So-"

"Apolagize to me, And I will beat you to death"

Doesnt seem very forgiving, even though Faith HAD yes been more then a bit of a bitch.

If nothing else she should have had faith (pardon the Pun) in Angels ability to Deal with and hold the girl.


Buffy almost comes across as a JAvert in that scene.

Not trying to make light of Faith, Threatening buffys Mother, Framing Buffy for a homicide, poisoning Angel, etc, just that Angel was clearly right, Faith needed therapy, not Jail.

 

[EffyStonem]

"Buffy I'm So-"

"Apolagize to me, And I will beat you to death"

Doesnt seem very forgiving, even though Faith HAD yes been more then a bit of a bitch.

If nothing else she should have had faith (pardon the Pun) in Angels ability to Deal with and hold the girl.


Buffy almost comes across as a JAvert in that scene.

Buffy had no reason to forgive Faith quickly or easily or to hear Angel out when he is trying to explain what he is trying to do with Faith; especially in light of all the things Faith has put Buffy and her friends and family through:

-Attempted to pin the Deputy Mayor's death on Buffy
-Held Willow hostage, during which time she also beat Willow
-Attempted to rape and kill Xander
-Tried to kill Angel simply to keep Buffy "distracted"
-Threatened and tried to kill Joyce
-Swapped bodies with Buffy, violating Buffy in the process
-Raped Riley while in Buffy's body

All of this would be very hard to come back from.

Now, I've never been a fan of the way that Buffy treats Faith in the early parts of Season 3 (I do think she could have made more of an effort with her). But that does not warrant what Faith subjected Buffy to. Buffy has every right to hold onto her anger until she feels that Faith deserves her forgiveness, regardless of time.

 

[Blaze]

Buffy fought alongside Faith for most of season 7, we might not have had a scene where Buffy explicitly forgives Faith, and she obviously hasn't forgiven her 100%, but she's forgiven her enough to let her back into her life. Yes, Faith was maybe needed, but that's never stopped Buffy from denying her a fighting spot. If Buffy really needed amo, she could have called Angel and co, Oz, Riley and co etc. She had other options then letting Faith back into her life. And she still chose to fight with her.

In the quote stated, Buffy won't accept an apology, she doesn't want an apology, the things that Faith have done ARE unforgivable. But at the end of the day, the actions may be unforgivable, but the person can be given a second chance. Actions speaks louder than words, and Buffy and Faith did get along in s7, they were at least civil, which mean that Buffy had forgiven her enough to not be arch nemesis like they were in s4.

 

[YummySushiPJs]

I love this scene towards the end of season 7

Faith: Maybe that's why we could never get along. There's only supposed to be one slayer.
Buffy: Yeah. (pause) Also you went evil and were killing people.

I think this scene works on two levels. Buffy making it clear that she won't forget what Faith did, but at the same time, she is sort of drawing a line under it. By mentioning it in an almost jokey way, she's telling Faith she's ready for them to move past it.

 

[CordelliasHeart]

one more question on Faith

is their ONE good reason

just ONE that Faith went to prison, not to a institution.

she was SICK, obviously.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Though it might appear so at times, Faith is not a psychopath exactly for the reasons stated above. She's not mentally ill. Her behavior in S3 is, in my opinion, was a reaction to her damaged background and the trauma she'd experienced. I'm not defending her, but it's worth noting that she does later feel remorse and eventually does redeem herself with the support of others.

In response to your question, why didn't they send faith to an institution? Again, because she wasn't mentally ill. She killed someone - not went insane. She was a violent killer, jail was the right fit.

 

[Blaze]

one more question on Faith

is their ONE good reason

just ONE that Faith went to prison, not to a institution.

she was SICK, obviously.

But she wasn't sick though. She was a pure delinquent. She didn't have a mental illness, at least not that we are shown. She is a regular human being with all her head that took bad decisions. She needed to learn the good old way that what she did was wrong. Her case a very simply a case of "she needed/should go to prison". Institutions are for people who commit crimes because they usually have a mental illness. Faith didn't. What she did was sick and despicable, but in no way was she herself sick. She is responsible for her own actions. Yes she was manipulated, she lacked a support system, a lot of stuff caused her to flip, and all those events weren't her fault, but her deciding to kill/torture, she still had power over those decisions. She was strongly influenced by the mayor and some outside factors, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't go to prison, she deserved every bit of her sentence, and she shouldn't have had a free pass to a mental institution when she didn't have a real mental condition that caused the actions.

Even people that are psychopath/sociopath for to a regular prison (and might get additionnal therapy there). Only in specific case will people be sent to an institution, like if someone is schizophrenic, in which case medication/treatment may actually change the person completely (basically the person can be rehabilitated).

 

[CordelliasHeart]

Wesley calls Faith a "Sick, sick, girl"


He does change his mind, after she torturers him though, to be fair.

Way some of her memories were haunting her like, "you killed a man" "I dont care" Suggested she was just starting to become sane again.

 

[Blaze]

Wesley calls Faith a "Sick, sick, girl"


He does change his mind, after she torturers him though, to be fair.

Way some of her memories were haunting her like, "you killed a man" "I dont care" Suggested she was just starting to become sane again.

Calling someone sick is usually an expression used for people that do something inhuman. I'd have to re-watch the scene where he says that though, but she wasn't sick in the sense of having a mental illness.

I think the latter was just her trying to come to terms with her murder, she clearly doesn't have two separate personalities.