Faith's comment in 'this year's girl'

Slayher

Swordsman
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Faith: I wake up to find that this blonde chick isn't even dating the guy she was so nuts about before. I mean, she's moved on to the first college beef stick she meets. And not only has she forgotten the love of her life, she's forgotten all about the chick she nearly killed for him. So that's my dream.

That is what i always thought about season 4. I mean, i like Buffy, but, she was soooo in love with angel and she just moves on. I couldnt have said it better myself. Does anyone else agree?
 
J
Jill_Valentine
[No message]
F
\/Fred\/
how dare she try to move on. The series name could been changed to buffy "the mopey " slayer.
Well yea but I guess she figures that it would never work out so she tries to just get on with her life and kind of take her mind off of it. And plus, Angel left so now nothing really could have happened between them.
But i see your point there.
 
Yep I agree. That wasn't the only time. In Angels S5 ep. The girl in cuestion, she was so inlove with Spike... but she quicky move on and get a new boyfriend.
 
Angel made the choice to leave...Buffy had no choice but to move on. She was confused at first and made bad decisions (ie. Parker) but in Riley she found comfort. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

As for forgetting about Faith, the last time Buffy left her she was "a homicidal maniac" why wouldn't Buffy want to forget her and the pain she caused to her and her friends.
 
J
JustAnnie
I agree. She couldn't mourn over Angel forever!
Nice point. I like that it took a character who'd been out of the world for 8 months to see how much had happened the Scoobies, when they couldn't see it themselves. Between that comment, Faith's speedy (and gloriously crude) evaluation of exactly what Tara was to Willow, and most heartbreakingly of all, her identification with Joyce as the ones Buffy left behind... it's hard to see why some folks don't consider her all that bright...

As for why Buffy wouldn't want to forget... If I stabbed somebody, and indirectly put them in a coma, regardless of who they were, there wouldn't be a day went by without me thinking about it.
 
Re:

Cordelia said:
Angel made the choice to leave...Buffy had no choice but to move on. She was confused at first and made bad decisions (ie. Parker) but in Riley she found comfort. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

As for forgetting about Faith, the last time Buffy left her she was "a homicidal maniac" why wouldn't Buffy want to forget her and the pain she caused to her and her friends.

I totally agree! (Sorry, couldn't rep ya!) Angel didn't really give Buffy much choice in the matter when he left. Why shouldn't she move on? And Faith had kidnapped Willow, almost strangled Xander, poisoned Angel, and tried framing Buffy for murder. I'd say she had a few more reasons to do what she did. Angel was just the last straw!
 
You guys make good points on why she should move on, but, i cant help thinking that if i went through everything buffy did with angel, it would take me alot longer to move on. in less then 8 months she slept with parker. then soon after she knew it was a mistake. then soon after that she sleeps with riley. you think she would learn not to sleep with the first guy she thinks is mr. right since parker nor riley end up being it.
 
Yes, Angel broke Buffy's heart on more than one occasion. Yes, by the time Buffy turned 17, they thought it would be forever. How is that different form a lot of high school relationships? There was a line in Sabrina, the Teenage Witch in which Zelda said that "at sixteen, its always true love." There aren't many people who don't remember thier first kiss, their first date, the magic of their first love, and nothing that happens after that will ever dampen the magic of those moments and feelings when they discover love for hte first time. That doesn't mean people don't grow, change, and move on. Buffy loved angel more than anything in the whole world, but she moved past it on her way from dough to cookies.
 
Re:

Slayher said:
You guys make good points on why she should move on, but, i cant help thinking that if i went through everything buffy did with angel, it would take me alot longer to move on. in less then 8 months she slept with parker. then soon after she knew it was a mistake. then soon after that she sleeps with riley. you think she would learn not to sleep with the first guy she thinks is mr. right since parker nor riley end up being it.

Angel and Buffy did conquer alot together, which could've only made their bond stronger. But 8 months is a long time to stand still. And rebounds almost always end badly (Parker). I think Buffy will always love Angel because he was her introduction to the experience. But after a while she was wise enough to know that.
 
Cordelia said:
Angel made the choice to leave...Buffy had no choice but to move on. She was confused at first and made bad decisions (ie. Parker) but in Riley she found comfort. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

As for forgetting about Faith, the last time Buffy left her she was "a homicidal maniac" why wouldn't Buffy want to forget her and the pain she caused to her and her friends.

I completely agree with Cordelia here!

And as far as 'forgetting Faith' well they didn't, obviously the Watcher's Council was having someone keep tabs on them (the nurse, and I'm sure others) and they were obviously informed to call Giles should she ever wake up.
 
"And as far as 'forgetting Faith' well they didn't, obviously the Watcher's Council was having someone keep tabs on them (the nurse, and I'm sure others) and they were obviously informed to call Giles should she ever wake up."

Her hospital room wasn't exactly brimming with boxes of Milk Tray and "Sorry we almost killed you!" Cards.... But okay. I can understand why people think it's alright for Buffy to try and succeed to forget about Faith herself (Though I disagree with that, it's a much longer conversation) but Buffy moved on too quickly from what Faith represented. Buffy took a single summer to get over the fact that she's tried to take the life of another human being. It doesn't matter who the corpse was, murder is murder. The first dream in TYG is a nice nod to that, but I think if S4 had dealt with the repurcussions of Buffy's actions a little more strongly, it might have had a bit more weight.
 
yeah Angel did leave Buffy, so she TRIED to move on, but as we saw in Season5 Buffy wasnt totally over him, as she didnt give as much to Riley as she did to Angel.

And Buffy obviously didnt try to forget Faith, it was kind of obvious that Buffy may have visited her in the hospital time from time, she was even phone called by someone to tell her that Faiths awake. And you saw how Buffy wanted Faith to be all peaceful and like how she first was in S3 instead of being their enemy.

Buffy didnt have any bad feelings about what she did to Faith since well Faith was still a live and she had to do what she had to do. She knew that Faith would have gutted her if she had the chance and its not like you are going to feel that much sympathy for someone who tried to kill your boyfriend and your best friends.

Buffy tried to help Faith timeless times, but Faith kept on screwing her over, just like how Buffy was ready to beat Faith to death in Sanctuary since Faith finally hit the hard spot to Buffy.

She may have felt gulitier if Faith had actually died while getting Angel to drink from Faith.
 
C
Cordelia
Great points
It's not just the Guilt though- Buffy never came to terms with the person she let herself become. Whether or not Faith actually died wasn't the issue, it was that Buffy was willing to kill her. Ironically, Faith's suicidal jump off the building was all that saved her life, because there's not a doubt in my mind that Buffy would have killed her. And that's what's a big deal. That sweet little Buffy Summers, former Spring Queen, Class Protector, didn't even hesitate, or stop to regret the decision she made. And that decision was that somebody else was not fit to live. Who died and made her God? Consider her blah-de-blah to Willow about how they don't get to kill who they want.

I agree that Faith needed to be stopped, but Buffy is a hero and she needs to be able to rise above exacting fatal revenge when there's more at stake. I sometimes wonder what Giles thought of it. She's more like him than he seems to think. There's more about this in the Buffy's a Killer thread, but I really think that if I was in Faith's position in S4? I would have said the same thing, only slower, louder and repeatedly, because obviously Buffy didn't quite get it the first time. I may have used glove puppets. And a pie chart.
 
Re:

See, I don't think Buffy would've killed Faith had she not jumped. The deer and headlights look on her face after the first initial stab showed that. I think it brought her back down to earth. And it was the jump that put her into a coma in the first place. Doctor said in "GP2" that the kidney damage was repairable, but the head trauma wasnt.
Buffy tried numerous times to help Faith and even helped her kill Kokistos.I agree Murder is murder ,no matter how you slice it. But I think Buffy did what most people in her situation would've done. True she was the slayer , and she should have risen above Faiths evil doings. But on the other hand, Faith had every intention of killing Buffy at graduation anyway. Faith caused just as much pain and destruction as some common demons did. I think the fact that she dosen't have a pair of fangs shouldn't make a difference. :flame:
 
NSlayMode said:
See, I don't think Buffy would've killed Faith had she not jumped. The deer and headlights look on her face after the first initial stab showed that. I think it brought her back down to earth. And it was the jump that put her into a coma in the first place. Doctor said in "GP2" that the kidney damage was repairable, but the head trauma wasnt.

Buffy's expression afterwards (And Kudos to SMG, who does a rather excellent "Oh, Bollocks." face) did suggest that she had come back down to earth alright. Whether it was Faith's sad little final speech, or the act itself, either way I prefer to think of it as more than concern for Angel. Her little Macbeth moment was nice, if cast aside rapidly.

But the deed is done. Nothing says "I want you dead" quite like a four hundred dollar designer knife in the gut... Buffy had no way of knowing Faith would survive it, it was only chance that she did. She hit her in the kidneys, which is one of the most fatal places to get stabbed other than the heart or throat. That's why I say that Buffy DID kill Faith, in any way that matters. She was willing to do it, and she made a fair (Ahem) stab at it. Faith freaked out a little bit after killing that demon guy with the Books of Ascension in a not dissimilar way.

And, though I don't want to sound like Faith's defence attorney, it's also worth remembering that she didn't just randomly kill the two people she murdered for the sheer heck of it. She was sent after them by the Mayor. Sure, it was evil, and very wrong, but at least it wasn't personal. Faith doesn't want to take over the world, or wipe out the human race or blow up the White House. She just wants to hang out with her Dad. Doesn't make anything she did less monstrous, but worth bearing in mind.

And Faith is different to any old monster. We've had it hammered into us for 7 seasons, between Buffy and Angel that demons and people are just...different, and thats that. A demon (most of 'em) don't choose to be what they are, and rarely seems able to choose to be anything else, but people can (even if they don't look like they will)

On the other hand, though I'm criticising Buffy's actions (The more I watch the Faithisodes, the harder it is to like Buffy) I'm not saying the writers made a mistake. Buffy's gradual transition from unswerving hero to Red Leathered Killer was amazing viewing. (I almost stubbed my toe off my dropped jaw at the end of GD1) It was very understandable. In Buffy's place, if I'd let Faith go that far, I probably would have shown up with a freakin' shotgun, in a disguise, with a bullet proof vest and riot gear. But that's the thing. I also would have run away from Sunnydale rather than face the Master. I would have killed Ben, maybe Dawn. Buffy's the Slayer because deep down, she's got a big wide hero vein. But she's got a cruel streak too.
 
Buffy may be a hero but dont forget that she is also human. No one is able to let their emotions go just like that, its a flaw in all humans. Emotions always get in the way of things and you cant just always put them aside since then that just makes things worse. it builds up in you until you're ready to explode.

Buffy trying to think that Faith can be a good person in S3-4 made her build up emotions and after Faith trying to kill Angel, Buffy finally decided "Im tired of this little cat and mouse game, tonight it ends" just like she had to do with Angelus. And then Faith screwed Buffy over big time in Season4 by stealing who she is, so once Buffy found out where she was and who she was with she finally EXPLODED.
 
Primal Slayer said:
Buffy may be a hero but dont forget that she is also human. No one is able to let their emotions go just like that, its a flaw in all humans. Emotions always get in the way of things and you cant just always put them aside since then that just makes things worse. it builds up in you until you're ready to explode.

Buffy trying to think that Faith can be a good person in S3-4 made her build up emotions and after Faith trying to kill Angel, Buffy finally decided "Im tired of this little cat and mouse game, tonight it ends" just like she had to do with Angelus. And then Faith screwed Buffy over big time in Season4 by stealing who she is, so once Buffy found out where she was and who she was with she finally EXPLODED.
Pretty much everything that Faith said about Buffy was done out of jealousy. I'm not talking about boyfriends here. Faith was a very bitter girl/woman. Think about the contrast in how they were brought up. Buffy was nutured, protected, and encouraged by her family before "becoming" the Slayer. Then she had Giles and the Scoobies to watch her back and show her loving support and appreciation. With the life that Faith was given it is small wonder that the Mayor seemed cool to her.
 
all i can say is - gotta love faith 🙂
i mean who if not faith would storm in and destroy the pretty picture for the sake of the naked truth. lovethe girl 🙂
*but* i'm not coming to give buffy a hard time. the fact that she tried to live a normal life and find exactly what angel had left her to find doesn't mean she ever stopped loving him or turned away from him. years later (season 7) and we stilllearn (well those of us who'd been blind anyway) that they're just as in love and still only see the other in their future.
 
I think Faith's comment is great, as is the way she sees everything no one else really had seen yet (like mentioned, Tara+Willow, Buffy not thinking too much about Angel, Buffy not thinking too much about Joyce, and so on). Faith does make a lot of points, it's obvious to her, since she remembers everything the way it was when she went into the coma. She remembers Buffy with Angel, Willow with Oz, Buffy living at home with Joyce and of course the Mayor.. and herself being part of the world. I feel ashamed I didn't even think of how Buffy completely forgot about Faith, the first time I watched the beginning of season 4. Faith was a huge part of season 3. Buffy and Faith had been enemies, close friends (almost even more..?) and everything in between. Buffy had almost killed Faith, she wanted to kill Faith, has she forgot about that too? Maybe that's one of the reasons. When Faith tells Buffy that they aren't that unlike eachother, that Buffy could have been Faith [or in Faith's situation], Buffy reacts strongly, she doesn't like to hear that at all. But still, she tries to kill Faith, although that's supposed to be the big difference between the two of them. Buffy would never ever kill a human, no matter what, but Faith could do that (and did). So when Buffy does this it means they're probably more alike than she thought, and she probably realizes this. Is that the reason why she wants to forget about Faith? See, I can never decide if she wants to forget about Faith or if she does that, for real, without trying that hard. It seems like she really did forget... about Faith.. the girl she tried to kill, who was a big part of her life, less than a year ago.

But, I don't think it's wrong Buffy being more or less over Angel. I mean she'll never be, completely, they will always be "soulmates" (I have to admit that even though i don't like the two of them together). I wouldn't have wanted her to mention Angel every other second. And he had his own show now so it was probably better to do it this way... Not having them talk about eachother all the time...
 
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