Father issues

bespangeled

bespangeled

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Black Thorn
Angel has father issues
Angel's boys all have father issues - Penn, Spike, Lawson and Connor
Wesley has father issues
Cordelia has father issues
Buffy has father issues
Xander has father issues.
Tara has father issues

We have a theme here - I never noticed it before. We've talked about mothers but why are there so many dysfunctional fathers?
 
Well, most things are if you want to see them that way. But there's not much in the way of mother issues.

Do you think Joss had father issues?
 
bespangeled said:
But there's not much in the way of mother issues.
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Joyce was a horrible mother. Besides, if Joss made 'dysfunctional' mothers a trope then the show would have lost it's 'feminist' title.

"Do you think Joss had father issues?"
I've no idea.. but doesnt everyone in one regard or another?
 
Faith. Faith has Father issues- just look at her replacement, the Mayor. Then her next replacement, Giles abandons her.
Then her actual Dad shows up in the comics and we get some sort of explanation as to why she might have those issues to begin with. 
I honestly think its less 'Father issues' and more parental issues- all tied up with Joss's belief that seems to be that 'traditional family' is kind of awful and really you made your own family as you make your way through life.

Buffy gets a new Dad (Giles), two best friends (Xander, Willow), a couple of sisters (Faith and Dawn) and so on.

The only person who has nice parents to begin with is Fred- everyone else is severely lacking.
 
Mr. Pole said:
Besides, if Joss made 'dysfunctional' mothers a trope then the show would have lost it's 'feminist' title.
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What about Catherine Madison, Sheila Rosenberg, Nikki Wood ( arguably ) and most importantly - Buffy Summers? Seconding @thetopher - it's parental issues.
 
I don't know about Joss, but Sarah once referred to her father as being little more than a sperm donor, though I seriously doubt that her opinion would have had that much influence on the show and all of its characters.
 
Parental issues are a common theme in many shows though. I guess it is an overused idea. Parents are a big part of life, that can't be denied.

Mad Men, Lost, The Sopranos, Six Feet Under, they all show it.
 
I never knew Cordelia had father issues. I don't watch AtS that often, was there a specific episode in which it was mentioned?
 
sosa lola said:
I never knew Cordelia had father issues. I don't watch AtS that often, was there a specific episode in which it was mentioned?
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There's an episode in Season 1 (Rm with A/Vu I think) where Angel mentions to Cordelia that her father just called- she doesn't seem very pleased.
Add to that the fact that her Father is the reason for her loss of status in life and that he's never really mentioned, I'd say that she doesn't get along with her folks. I wouldn't describe that as 'issues' exactly, just 'their my not-very-good' parents.
 
bespangeled said:
Well, most things are if you want to see them that way. But there's not much in the way of mother issues.

Do you think Joss had father issues?
Click to expand...

Mothers don't do too well in the Jossverse.

Kralik, the psycho vampire in "Helpless 3 x 12", appears to have continuing mother issues.
Amy Madison's mother is trapped in a cheerleading trophy in "The Witch 1 x 03".
Both Willow and Buffy had their mothers try to kill them in "Gingerbread 3 x 11".
Buffy's mother died in "The Body 5ABB16".
Buffy's mother was drugged into accepting Ted in spite of his animosity to Buffy in "Ted 2 x 11".
Buffy's mother drives her out of the house at the end of Season 2 then gives her an unwelcome back party in "Dead Man's Party 3 x 02".
Tara's mother is convinced by her husband that she has turned demonic in "Family 5 x 06".
Spike's mother is turned then turns on him in "Lies my Parents Told me 7 x 17".

Whereas fathers may be represented as poor excuses for humanity, few of them actually end up in danger or become a danger to others. Mothers can suffer all sorts of horrible fates. Maybe Joss has parental issues.
 
bespangeled
bespangeled
These are incidents, but not issues. Issues tend not to come from a single event or occurrence.
Xander's mother isn't sunshine and roses either. She's a miserable drunk who doesn't recognize her only child's voice on the phone - I think it was in Surprise.

From Joss' DVD commentary on Restless regarding Xander's scene with Joyce:

"But as I was saying, he refers to himself as a conquistador, and Joyce implies that perhaps what he's looking for is comfort. And he replies, "I'm also a comfortador." And that phrase comes up again. And what I was saying with that basically was the idea that Xander is looking for love. Not just trying to get into the pants of every pretty girl that he's friends with, but really looking for something. Some comfort, some love that clearly is lacking from his mother and his family life."
 
bespangeled
bespangeled
Probably mother issues there - but in response to a loud abusive husband. I see him as the main problem but that doesn't give her leave to do what she does.
thetopher said:
Faith. Faith has Father issues- just look at her replacement, the Mayor. Then her next replacement, Giles abandons her.
Then her actual Dad shows up in the comics and we get some sort of explanation as to why she might have those issues to begin with. 
I honestly think its less 'Father issues' and more parental issues- all tied up with Joss's belief that seems to be that 'traditional family' is kind of awful and really you made your own family as you make your way through life.

Buffy gets a new Dad (Giles), two best friends (Xander, Willow), a couple of sisters (Faith and Dawn) and so on.

The only person who has nice parents to begin with is Fred- everyone else is severely lacking.
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Yeah - I knew Faith did but I couldn't give a good example.

I don't see it as parental issues - Joyce was imperfect but she tried and she was excellent sometimes. Willow's mother was distant. But I don't recall anyone else with mother issues. OTH - the rest of this I think is dead on. 
EVIL UU said:
What about Catherine Madison, Sheila Rosenberg, Nikki Wood ( arguably ) and most importantly - Buffy Summers? Seconding @thetopher - it's parental issues.
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Catherine Madison - one episode. I don't count Ted in father issues either
Sheila Rosenberg - one episode, and part of it under a spell. Without that spell I doubt she would have tried to kill Willow. So absentee parents there - which is why I didn't put her on the list as having specific father issues.
Nikki Wood - did the best she could with what life handed her. She also wasn't really the father of a regular character.
By and large I think mothers were treated comparably well. 
GwenRaiden said:
Parental issues are a common theme in many shows though. I guess it is an overused idea. Parents are a big part of life, that can't be denied.

Mad Men, Lost, The Sopranos, Six Feet Under, they all show it.
Click to expand...

The first rule of writing children's books is first kill the parents.😀
Yeah - it is scarcely original but neither is forbidden romance or UST. 
sosa lola said:
I never knew Cordelia had father issues. I don't watch AtS that often, was there a specific episode in which it was mentioned?
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He didn't pay taxes, lost everything Cordy had - college fund, jewelry, clothes, home - and blamed him for ruining her life.
 
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