For All Bangels and Spuffies

white avenger

white avenger
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
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rome, georgia
Is it the actor or the character that makes the ship? If Marsters had been cast as Angel and Boreanaz had played Spike, would you still support the ship that you currently do?

I think that I would, because what I like about Spike is his evolution from his introduction in Season 2 through Season 7 and then on Season 5 of "Angel." Of course, that's assuming that both actors would be capable of playing their roles convincingly.
 
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Relic
You never cease to suprise me. Awsome question
yeh i would stil feel the same, its the characters that we have fallen in love with, now i couldnt see anyone other than marsters playig spike but thats becuase i have seen him play spike from the start, if boreanez had been cast as spike we would still see his character the way we do now, its jkust what we're used to.

I dunno if that makes sense, i tend to ramble and normally only i can understand what i write and say lol
 
i'm not sure, part of why i initially fell in love with the 'Angel' character is because i was all 14 years old and 'mmmm David Boreanaz is so dreamy...' so i can't say that i'd love the character as much without that? Plus he pulls off broody and dark and mysterious better than James can.

James does awesomely as Spike, i mean he owns that character, he has the swagger and the attitude and all, but I just don't think i'd have belived in the character as much if Angel/Angelus had been portrayed by James and viceversa with Spike

the casting people always did a way better job than we tend to give them credit for, i mean look at how many of the guest stars went on to have amazing careers, yay for BtVS casting!
 
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randiann
I second that dreamy! He is yum!!!
It's the character that got me hooked on Spike at first, not James. I started shipping Spuffy because of the way the two characters interacted in 'School Hard'. If the characters were to stay the same, but were played by different actors, yes, I'd probably still ship them. But Spike has to be the cocky Cockney, otherwise it's just no fun, lol.
 
The absolute problem with this question is that character and actor are inextricably linked.

The actor moulds the character around them and the nuances the actor adds move your perception.

I think one of the greatest ways to see this external top Buffy it to look at Beverley Hills Cop.

Eddie Murphy IS Axle Foley, he was brilliant BUT when he was presented with the script, it was the one written for Sylvester Stallone - the original Axle Foley.

Both would have done a good job BUT both would be extremely different characters because of what they would bring to the role.
 
Hmmm for my favorite ship, Xanya, don't know how replacable Emma would be she played it quite well i couldn't see SMG playing the part at all, but Aly might have done well...

As for Xander if it had been any other of the major actors on the show I wouldn't have liked it (because Nick looks kinda joe-schmoe compared to the other male actors which look like models)...but i'm sure there could outside of the Buffyverse coulda played Xander just fine..Hell Alan Tudyk playing Wash in Firefly was practically the same as Xander!
 
In my case...it's both!

The character has to have a certain personality, and the actor look delish!
BUT I'd make an exception with Angel if Marsters played him! (I find Angel totally personality drained)
 
I dont know, Id be lying if I said part of the reason I love spike so much has nothing to do with the fact that I find James so attractive. But I also just find him to be a better character. I do love David and Angel, I was all goggly eyed for david when I was like 14. I love it when Angel is all goofy and funny and think David really shines when playing Angelus. But Im sorry these days I just dont buy it when he is being all serious and romantic, so when it comes to the ship I just dont feel that much anymore when watching buffy/angle mushy scenes. Thats why I support the Cangel ship coz ofcourse there wast the heart ache but it was also kinda funny at times. James just makes me weak at the knees in Beneath You and Touched etc., I totaly buy the romantasism. Im tring to see David as Spike and vise versa but I cant do it, as people have said above they own their roles and made them what they were. I just think that the characters of Buffy and Spike are better suited to eachother like Angel and Cordy are. So I guess Im going with a 50/50 answer, its the characters AND the actors that do it for me.
 
Is it true that James acctually auditioned for the role of Angel? I'm sure i heard that somewhere???

I agree with BOTD a few posts above^, I think the character and the actor playing the part are linked and one determines the other. The characters of Angel and Spike would be completely different if the other was playing them, I suspect I would have liked Angel better.
 
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Edmund Blackadder
I am SURE thta I would love Angel/Spike the other way around BUT they would be different. Euggh, I wonder if Davids English accent is better than his Irish!!!!
While to some degree I agree that the chracters and the actors linked together. I'm not sure if I could see anyone else as Bufffy but I think ultimately it is the character that I love. Angel is my favourite character yet I really don't like David Boreanaz. Sure he is pretty to look at it's just that when DB starts talking that I get annoyed. He pretty much grates my nerves. Same goes for James Marsters. I like Spike (most of the time) but I find it really hard to sit and listen to JM.
 
white avenger
white avenger
The same thing could be said for a lot of different actors. We love the character that they play, not the actor.
Yeah, I think that people really need to understand what an actor does.

They don't just read lines, they take the lines of the character, they mould it around themselves, they have to have creative input in the evolution of the character because that is the only way they can make the role their own PLUS when writers/directors see chemistry between two actors playing roles that sparks ideas within them for future storylines.

Hence the actor, especially playing a long term character, IS for all intent and purpose the actors alterego.

IF Angel had been played with James Marsters then while the overall arc would probably have been similar(based on Whedon saying that certain plans were there from the beginning) the detail of the shows would be hugely different and our loves/hates for characters would be completely different.
 
The actor is important, and maybe this is just my self aggrandizing bias as a writer, but a big part of why the actor is important has to with the star worship system that has developed as a promotional tool in Hollywood. That sometimes system gives actors more creative control than, perhaps, they should have. By the same token, it also sparks ideas based on actor chemistry and capability, as mentioned above. One of the greatest challenges in screenwriting is restraint; a writer has to be able to take about ten million steps back and let the acting, art design, wardrobe, cinematography, score, editing, and countless other teams influence and even transform the final product. At the end of the day, though, good writing speaks for itself no matter who is in a role. Although Buffy did have a great cast, what makes it stand out is the writing. It isn't just the usual trite TV fare; it's something more ambitious than that. Layers of meaning, symbolism, and metaphor are delicately woven into the text. This richness of writing would have been there no matter who played Angel or Spike.


The best example that I can come up with is that of a recent story on my favorite soap opera. It's a daily 1 hour drama, so you've got to expect low production values and rushed writing and acting. You also have to expect recasts, which is sort of why I bring this up. In this story, a child was shot in the head by a bullet intended for his mafia kingpin (adopted) father. It was an accident and a tragedy but, even more than that, it was the price that his three parent figures paid for the violence and mayhem in which they had indulged for the duration of this child's life. The parents were torn up with grief and guilt. At first, they supported one another, but when the news came down that the child would be permanently comatose, they turned on one another, each of them attempting (ineffectually) to find someone to blame even more than they each blamed themselves. Without getting into too much detail, let me just say that these three have in their own way as complicated and twisted a relationship as the Angel/Buffy/Spike relationship. The difference is that one of the characters -- the woman -- has gone through four different actresses. The actress playing the role of the mother in this story was three actresses removed from the woman who had played her when the child was born and the father figures were chosen. Even so, these scenes were still powerful and moving. No matter what the most recent actress does with the role, Carly is still Carly. She's still a brash, impulsive, selfish, loyal force of nature. She still loves both of these men and has with them intensely complicated relationships that have led to this heartrending moment. She still leans on Jason and self-destructs with Sonny. At the end of the day, it isn't the current actress who grieves for and fights for her son; it's the character, Carly. And that character comes from the writers.

From my perspective, then, I definitely think that the writing matters more than the acting. As important as acting is, I think I would have felt similarly about both pairings no matter who had played the male leads. Angel would always be brood boy. Spike would always be the crazily complex character that he is. The acting simply serves to translate those aspects of the characters to the audience. Bad acting can block certain things from getting through to the audience and good acting can make certain aspects of the character shine, but neither character traits nor character development originate with the actor. The actor just delivers the message.
 
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Edmund Blackadder
I both agree and disagree
I really can't imagine David as Spike and James as Angel.. I love the characters (that is, Spike's character) but I do think its the combination of actor and role that makes the character we love or hate. It would be totally different if they were played by someone else.. Every actor would do something different, use different facial expressions, move differently, different gestures.. And they are just perfectly cast: I mean, Angel can't have James' small, pointy face. He's basically a romantic, slightly wrong person so dark, tall, forehead en those dark eyes is exactly what such a character needs. Spike on the other hand, is majorly wrong, sarcastic and "evil" so tough, pointy features and cheeky is what he needs. And James has that, DB not.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that it is the characters I love (seriously, JM can annoy me so much in other roles or as himself) but if they would have been played by other actors, it would have been soo different, I can't say anything sensible about it. (My guess is that I would still love Spike. But I don't know. If Nicholas Cage played him, I would hate him. God, how I hate that guy ^^)
 
B
Blondie Bear
Nicholas Cage as Spike? . . . 0.0
ItMustBeBunnies
ItMustBeBunnies
was watching nick cage on letterman the last night....god he lookes bizarr these days! really creepy....
Hi Palabra, and I would not argue with that if we were discussing actors who are similar

I have absolutely NO idea what soap you are on about HOWEVER, I will guarantee that when they recast that role, they were looking for similar qualities within the actresses SO there would be a sort of continuity.

While White Avengers initial question is indeed throught provoking, what we are basically asked is would we still feel the same, ie be 'Spuffy's' if we were Spuffys IF DB had played the role, and the simple fact of that is the answer is a complete unknown. Even with the best writing (which I will argue Buffy often had) James and David have completely different styles of acting

They would have handled the roles differently and you can't deny there is a different chemistry between the actors as is, so the writers would have taken that on board.

I am not arguing that either would be bad or that the storylines wouldn't be similar and still enjoyable, but to simply pick and drop these two actors around and then ask would we feel the same about the relationships.

The absolute simple truth is we will never know.
 
palabravampiress
palabravampiress
Hi back. Welcome back to the boards!
Airam
Airam
[No message]
For me it is both the actor and the character. When I think about David in the Spike role I would love him because he is David but I do not love the Spike character so that would be hard to get over.
 
For me its the actors that primarly help with me joining a ship. Then its the charectersthemselves for the most part. SMG and David have some serious chemistry which is why Bangel became so popular. If they hadnt had any chemistry I doubt it wouldve gone as far as it did.
 
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hannahfngrl26
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DrusillaRox
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I don't think that either of them could have played anything other than the characters they did.

I don't think that David would have had the comedic timing that James has as Spike -- imagine Smile Time in the scene where Spike is wrestling with the puppet of Angel before the lift doors shut... David, in my humble opinion couldn't have pulled that off and made me laugh outloud for as long as James did in that scene.
 
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