For the love of Joyce

[Professor Walsh]

A while back, I mentioned that I'd start a (proper) thread about Joyce. Now is as bad a time as any.

I love that Joss Whedon created Joyce. If the reason that she became such a prominent character is that everybody adored Kristine Sutherland, then I am glad she was casted. Joyce is a working mother, trying her best to be a good parent to her daughter while keeping the boat afloat economically. The income comes from her working hard at a job she loves. Sometimes, trying her best at parenting succeeds, sometimes it doesn't sometimes she does downright dumb choices. That's why I love her. Parenting is so bloody hard, there are times when we have to realise that we have done our very best - but it wasn't enough.

Mothers in fiction are often either idolised or downright vicious. Joyce is neither.

 

[cryptwarmer]

I really like her character and I think it added a lot to the show to provide this look into an important aspect of Buffy's life. Her ties to family and friends hugely influenced her role as a Slayer, and it was interesting to see how her Slaying affected family relationships as well as us having another strong woman in an important role in Buffy's life.

Joyce had a lot to do with Buffy's character (as a person), she was a role model, support, responsibility etc etc. We didn't need to see the other characters interaction with their parents, but it was important to have that insight into Buffy's life.

Joyce was a consistent spot of normal in Buffy's crazy life. Even though there were some plots where Joyce brought the supernatural home (African Mask, Ted) basically she was pretty much a normal mom and a sense of stability.

Not that it is EVER easy to lose your mother, when Joyce died it was that much more devastating to Buffy because there was then NOTHING normal, human and solid in her life. No home base. The only person left who was living proof that a normal 100% human person could love her was Xander.

 

[Athena]

Joyce was great in the later seasons, but a very stereotypical annoying mum in the earlier ones, before she knew Buffy was the slayer and even when she did find out, she took it quite badly.

I mean, Joyce was the one who actually told her teenage daughter to never return home again if she left to save the world. That's why Buffy ran away at the end of S2 and ended up living in LA. I think after that, Joyce softened as a character and she developed as a loving and not completely overbearing mother and provided that much-needed support to Buffy when the rest of her life was so crazy, but still having her own character and flaws. I adored Joyce from S3 onwards.

And The Body is still the best 40 mins of TV you will ever see in your life and while SMG knocks it out of the park, it's Kristine Sutherland who nails it overall, because she took a fairly cardboard cutout mother character and made you fall in love with her completely, so to lose her so unexpectedly was heart-wrenching. I cried like a baby.

 

[Foxy]

And The Body is still the best 40 mins of TV you will ever see in your life and while SMG knocks it out of the park, it's Kristine Sutherland who nails it overall, because she took a fairly cardboard cutout mother character and made you fall in love with her completely, so to lose her so unexpectedly was heart-wrenching. I cried like a baby.

Preach to that. I think it is one of the best episodes of all time, especially the beginning sequence.

I loved Joyce, she was really a great and realistic character (esp. later on). I was really sad she passed away, but I think it was handled very well. In the beginning she was rather stereotypical, but that changed after Buffy ran away.

I always felt after she passed away that the show lost something, soe sense of normal life. It kept the show grounded a bit.

 

[Professor Walsh]

Joyce was great in the later seasons, but a very stereotypical annoying mum in the earlier ones, before she knew Buffy was the slayer and even when she did find out, she took it quite badly.

I mean, Joyce was the one who actually told her teenage daughter to never return home again if she left to save the world. That's why Buffy ran away at the end of S2 and ended up living in LA.

I know, both with her being a stereotype and the absolute no-go area of saying your kiddo can't come back. Still, the stereotype is one I can so easily recognise myself in at times, and as for doing or saying things I never thought I'd say or do ... Yes. There are times when I feel so bad at mothering that all I wish is that I could toss the day away and start over.

 

[RomanticSoul]

She sucked as a mother. But then so did every parent in BtVS.

 

[HowiMetdaSlayer]

I thought Joyce (while far from perfect) was one of the few good examples of good parenting on Buffy. Methinks Joss needs a lot of therapy. 😉

And The Body is still the best 40 mins of TV you will ever see in your life and while SMG knocks it out of the park, it's Kristine Sutherland who nails it overall, because she took a fairly cardboard cutout mother character and made you fall in love with her completely, so to lose her so unexpectedly was heart-wrenching. I cried like a baby.

I pretty much felt that way for bout a year after watching it. Until I got into West Wing. That show (& The Newsroom to slightly lesser extant) really ups the ante. To be fair the last 10 years have seen some quite excellent TV.

 

[Mr Trick]

I thought Joyce (while far from perfect) was one of the few good examples of good parenting on Buffy. Methinks Joss needs a lot of therapy. 😉

I pretty much felt that way for bout a year after watching it. Until I got into West Wing. That show (& The Newsroom to slightly lesser extant) really ups the ante. To be fair the last 10 years have seen some quite excellent TV.

Don't forget that The West Wing first aired about 99 so it was around the same time as Buffy. Think there has been some great shows the last ten years, but I still think some of the cult shows which came out in the late early/late/90s will have stood the test of time in a way many of the recent shows won't.

 

[HowiMetdaSlayer]

Dunno, I think it depends on what yer watching.

 

[Professor Walsh]

She sucked as a mother. But then so did every parent in BtVS.

I thought Joyce (while far from perfect) was one of the few good examples of good parenting on Buffy.

Yes, I find her not perfect but all right. She does some stupid parenting choices, yes. That doesn't make her an all-over sucky parent. I know quite a few people who's never done a stupid parenting choice. None of them have children.

 

[Priceless]

What is it that they say - it's hard to accept your parents are people too. I think Joyce embodies that idea, in that Joss tried to make her real and fallible

Joyce added an extra dimension to Buffy that I think the show benefitted from, she placed Buffy in a solid reality with boundaries. Until Buffy grew out of her, and then they killed her off and replaced a mother with a daughter (Dawn)

 

[GwenRaiden]

Joyce was always kind of Buffy's constant in life until her death in season five, and although they had a rocky path along the way, I think Buffy really truly savoured the normality of Joyce as a psychological escape from the supernatural.

That end scene from Innocence, after Angel has lost his soul and the consequences of that, Buffy returns home to her mother and without explaining herself is able to relax and shut off in her company, with some comfort and an old movie.

The irony of Buffy becoming a pseudo mother to a supernatural being, AKA The Key, is also not lost on me.