Fred's Soul (possible spoilers)

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caritas08

lornelover
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I'm confused about Fred's soul. Is it really gone? The doctor said it was gone in Hole in the World but since then there has been talk of remnants of "Fred" being left especially in After the Fall. Maybe I'm just in denial. What do you guys think?
 
My theory is that Fred's soul is/was trapped in Fred's body, she was overpowered by Illyria's. So Wesley (I think it was Wesley) was right about her not having an afterlife because, technically, she's still alive, trapped in her own body, just not able to make her presence known to the rest of the gang - well, at first. Fred's personality comes through a couple of times in AtF, so maybe she started regaining her strength around that time.
 
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VampireJason
[No message]
Taaroko
Taaroko
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Ms.Trick
That whole story is so tragic to me :/
Tillow4ever
Tillow4ever
That's so sad. :(
Energy can't be fully erased, therefore Fred's still alive somewhere. I kinda agree with Mumrik, I believe Fred's soul was locked away within Illyria and I think it really could've been Fred who was holding Wesley as he died, it did sound like her.
 
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SlayerFae
I like your theory on that. Mine was always that Illyria had actually begun to have feelings for Wesley. All her talk of wanting to "explore" the relationship he had with Fred.. Either Fred's feelings became Illyria's or Fred's still there somewhere
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citiegal17
I like that theory maybe someday Fred's soul will be seen again.
I believe that I read somewhere that one of Joss' plans for Season 6, if there had ever been a televised Season 6, was to have Fred and Illyria split into two independent entities. Unless he planned to portray Fred as some sort of soulless being, which I highly doubt, then there WERE plans to recover her soul, which pretty well means that it remained intact somewhere.
 
I personally believe that Fred's essence was consumed in the fires of Illyrias creation. Illyria doesn't lie generally and that's what the god-king said so I'll take his/her word.

In After the Fall Illyria is having mental troubles that manifests Fred, however Fred is a realization of Illyrias 'humanity' coming through, not actual Fred. Illyria wants so badly to be human and feel human emotions that she tries to be Fred. That's all that is.

Wes is unfortunately in heaven alone.
 
Taake
Taake
I think so too, even if yes, this is unfortunate for Wes.
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dan k
[No message]
@white advenger: That is what I heard as well. It would've been amazing to see.
 
ToShanshuInLA said:
I thought the remnants of Fred were memories?
Click to expand...

Yeah for sure. I think those memories give Illyria a blueprint. However the underlying impetus for her constantly shifting into Fred is Illyrias desire to experience the human condition as it were.

So although Wes/Spikes memories and the remnants of Freds psyche are where Illyria get her paint on which to use the canvas of her body to create a picture of a person, its the painter (Illyria) that has the ultimate desire to be a person at all, and why it drives her outhouse rat insane when her creations always fall flat of the reality.

She has the tools but not the talent to fashion herself into a real person.


(I thought that was a good metaphor)
 
I agree with Wesley. I always thought Fred's soul would normally be gone. But Fred fought so hard not to let Illyria take over her body. I think that made her soul is still there somewhere. It's like if you try hard, you'll succeed.
 
Tillow4ever
Tillow4ever
I like that.
white avenger said:
I believe that I read somewhere that one of Joss' plans for Season 6, if there had ever been a televised Season 6, was to have Fred and Illyria split into two independent entities. Unless he planned to portray Fred as some sort of soulless being, which I highly doubt, then there WERE plans to recover her soul, which pretty well means that it remained intact somewhere.
Click to expand...

That would have been amazing. If you figure out where you read that, please let me know. I'd love to read that myself 🙂
 
This probably has everything to do with how religious I am, but I refuse to believe that a human soul could be literally physically destroyed by any means. Even if the soul is fictional. That concept is completely incompatible with my brain, that her soul would just cease to exist. The only people who told us Fred's soul was destroyed were bad guys who wouldn't want Angel, Wes, and the others to try sabotaging Illyria's rebirth by tinkering with soul magic anyway, so I'm not going to take their word for it. I'm all for the theory that she's simply trapped in her body, and overpowered by Illyria.
 
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soulunsung
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What actually happened to Fred's soul?

So, we know that when Illyria was resurrected that Fred's soul was 'consumed'. Does this mean she's in some sort of limbo like Cordelia was, unable to communicate? Or is it as if Fred never existed at all, her soul simply vanishing? It was never really elaborated on, except for the characters on Angel saying she was 'gone'.

Opinions, theories?
 
I would like to think that the "completely consumed" part was a bit overexaggerated by the big baddies of s5, just as a way to push the AI team towards despair. Or perhaps they even believed it themselves... I just don't think that her should could have been completely destroyed 🙂
 
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