Free Will

Well now that depends on what you say god is. Now see, my God, she is big with the choice giving. But nothing can be outside the realm of her knowledge. So, then while she may have a path for me that is better than the other options availible, and may will me to follow that path, ultimately I must decide where my next step will be. Now, if she already knew what I would choose, is it still my choice? I have to think it is. No one but me could mess my life up as well as I do! I am but a rebellious child most of the time. My gut feeling is that I have free will.
Kudos on the topic Fiver.
 
Well, depends. If you consider the fact that we're more or less "taught" to have free will, does that still count as free will? To a certain extent, I guess, yes. But let's face it, we're basically nothing but what we're taught in one way or another.
 
Well, I hope it's not an illusion. I hope. Language itself implies will, action, motivation. It seems practically irrelevant. As in, I feel like I do have free will. I can't not feel like I have free will, lol. Even if it is an illusion, I can't escape the illusion, can't even grasp the alternative....

I haven't given the following much thought. This seems to get into that pesky issue of time, and cause and effect. You logicians and philosophers can let me know if there's an obvious counter-argument:

An Omniscient (all-knowing) Being Does Not Have Free Will

If you are all-knowing, you know your future actions, what choices you will make, and you cannot change them otherwise your knowledge would be wrong, and you wouldn't be all-knowing. An omniscient being has no free will to choose actions; all its actions are predetermined.

"There is a light switch on the wall; God may either turn it on, or leave it off; but, since God already knows the future, God knows that he will turn it on. That is part of his knowledge. But what if God exercises freewill, and chooses not to turn it on. Is this possible?"

If you knew a decision you are going to make in the future... what would it mean? You would have no free will to change that choice. No option, no choices... based on the fact that you know its going to happen, it is predestined and no amount of strong will can change it. The further in the future the predicted choice is, the less free will you have to change it! Well imagine if for infinity you'd always known exactly what choices you were going to make, and that you could never be wrong. You would never have had any free will in any choice, ever!

In effect God is an observer. An omniscient being has no free will - its entire future is set out and it has no choice but to follow its predestined path.

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/god_has_no_free_will.html
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Has God somehow limited his own omniscience? Is the key factor here that God would exist outside of time? Then there's this sorta stuff which really intrigues me:

Throughout the history of science, attempts have been made to answer the question of free will using scientific principles. Early scientific thought often pictured the universe as deterministic, and some thinkers believed that it was simply a matter of gathering sufficient information to be able to predict future events with perfect accuracy. This encourages individuals to see free will as an illusion. Modern science is a mixture of deterministic and stochastic theories. For example, radioactive decay occurs with predictable probability, but it is not possible even in theory to tell when a particular nucleus will decay. Quantum mechanics only predicts observations in terms of probabilities. This casts doubt on whether the universe is deterministic at all. Some scientific determinists such as Albert Einstein believe in the hidden variable theory, that beneath the probabilities of quantum mechanics there are set variables (see the EPR Paradox). This theory has had great doubt cast on it by the Bell Inequalties, which suggest that God may really play dice after all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will
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Every decision you make affects the future... it isn't set in stone... every time you choose to do something your future alters to take that decision into account...
 
I guess I'd have to go with the free will is possible view, but rare and the rousseau view that man i born free, but is everywhere in chains
 
Ohhhhh we had this little debate...well not so little, more extermely heated and explosive...debate in philosophy one day...

They only thing I remember is the kid behind me saying "Yea, I have free will, and it's making me want to shoot myself in the head so I don't have to listen to all of you yelling at each other anymore".

Thought I'd share that.

Anyway...I'd like to BELIEVE i have my own free will...but i don't know...
 
It depends on what level you mean.
Free Will in the sense of Picking a Mars Bar over a Snickers.....yes
Free Will in bigger life decisions, i don't think so.....but i don't put that down to God, thats squarely at the door of man, placing Burdens upon us, forcing us to make decisions we have no real control over....

Its not Big Brother its Big Mutha!!!
 
I used to think I had free will, that I was in charge of my own destiny and the Fates be damned. I don't anymore. I think there is a higher power out there (God or Goddess or whatever you want to call it) that directs everything that ulimately happens in our lives. We have a limited sort of free will that helps us make daily decisions, like what to watch on TV, what to eat for dinner, where to go on vacation. Sure, we're taught that God (a euphemism for your choice of diety, so don't shoot me) gave us Free Will (and by extension, we're made to feel guilt over the mess we've made of things with it!), but I think we're taught that because we have to believe that our lives aren't completely futile! It's an illusion.
 
If we're talking Fate here, then I dont believe in it.

I guess I believe we have free will.

But then thats cos I dont believe in anything else.
 
Getting away from the philosophical/metaphysical for a sec...

Seems like genetics, the human body, the brain limits the range of our will (real or imagined) to a degree, right? We have our own personal temperments, personalities, inclinations. We're male and female. We can reach outside ourselves, move away from our tendencies, act "out of character"...

How much free will does a schizophrenic have? A sociopath? I don't know...
 
Dia DeLa Muerte said:
It depends on what level you mean.
Free Will in the sense of Picking a Mars Bar over a Snickers.....yes
Free Will in bigger life decisions, i don't think so.....but i don't put that down to God, thats squarely at the door of man, placing Burdens upon us, forcing us to make decisions we have no real control over...Its not Big Brother its Big Mutha!!!
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While I understand what you are saying I don't entirely agree with your logic (which should amuse you as I am probably the least logical person you know!). But how is choosing your next tiny moment so very different from making larger life choices, do your small choices (to turn left or right, to buy this magazine or that) not add up to create the world in which you exist? I am not generally a fan of all or nothing thinking, but this to me is, and even now I feel my philosophy shifting. I mean I don't think I can thwart the will of god with my choices, only because She, in her awesome glory can work with what ever small and large decisions I make to have Her will done. But either she controls everything or she allows us to choose. I don't see how it can be both, just on the simple premise that ALL of our actions add up to create our life outcome. Just my thoughts...u know from the non-logical one of us.
 
We have free will so we are responcible for our actions..hense a sense of guilt everytime our con*** something something pricks us.(i can remember how to spell It was the bourbon...lol)
 
I guess free will really depends on other questions. Like, who are you?

Are you all that you have been, or are you what you can be?

If my will is free, does addiction mean it's trapped?

Does choice mean free?

Is Fiver God?

Is I high?

Nuts?

Ho.
 
While I understand what you are saying I don't entirely agree with your logic (which should amuse you as I am probably the least logical person you know!). But how is choosing your next tiny moment so very different from making larger life choices, do your small choices (to turn left or right, to buy this magazine or that) not add up to create the world in which you exist? I am not generally a fan of all or nothing thinking, but this to me is, and even now I feel my philosophy shifting. I mean I don't think I can thwart the will of god with my choices, only because She, in her awesome glory can work with what ever small and large decisions I make to have Her will done. But either she controls everything or she allows us to choose. I don't see how it can be both, just on the simple premise that ALL of our actions add up to create our life outcome. Just my thoughts...u know from the non-logical one of us
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You have commented on something i have not said.
I believe we have Free Will given to us by God but Man has since taken it from us.

Free Will in the sense of Picking a Mars Bar over a Snickers.....yes
Free Will in bigger life decisions, i don't think so.....but i don't put that down to God, thats squarely at the door of man, placing Burdens upon us, forcing us to make decisions we have no real control over....
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thats what i wrote😉
 
Lol..I told u I was without the logic and I think I was talking about the candy bar thing, but going back and reading it I have no idea what I was on about 🙂 u love me.
 
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