From shallow to deep

[Skytteflickan88]

I think she did do a 180, she just didn't do a 360. She wasn't completely heartless, but she did act as you said, a bitch. From a shallow and mean girl to the hero she is today, that's a big change, and a huge difference, in my opinion.



The Buffy we saw on the show wouldn't. But the Buffy of LA would. The Buffy that they bothered enough to show us in just one flashback of her at that time, that was about showing how different and Cordelia-like she used to be. And of course the change that started from the moment she was told she was a Slayer.

I think we're actually agreeing more than you think. When I say Buffy didn't change that much, I mean that she didn't change as much as the first poster said. She was caring, it was just a hidden side, and I don't think it was as if she changed in a unreasonable way.

And that second comment wasn't for you. We both agree that she didn't mean it literally, but EvilWillow does, so that's why I said I disagree.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

I think we're actually agreeing more than you think. When I say Buffy didn't change that much, I mean that she didn't change as much as the first poster said. She was caring, it was just a hidden side, and I don't think it was as if she changed in a unreasonable way.

I think we are. I don't remember what the OP said but I'm won't agree on that point clamining that she wasn't... well human. Even Cordelia was human. I don't mean literally of course. I'm more than sure she cared about people, even her boyfriend. But her personality was bitchy, the things she did were bitchy and what she said was bitchy (good thing she wasn't rich, cause then she'd be exactly like Cordelia 😀). That's why she did change a lot from that girl to a hero.

And that second comment wasn't for you. We both agree that she didn't mean it literally, but EvilWillow does, so that's why I said I disagree.

I know. I was commenting instead of her. If she wants she can comment on that later too, I just wanted to add what I had to say 🙂

---------- Post added at 07:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:59 PM ----------

Skytteflickan88 agrees: So you do think Buffy wanted that boy to literally crawl?

No, I'll explain myself better on this one. The crawling thing is just a figure of speech, even for her. But the literal part is where she actually feels he should, for her, so she would feel adored. She didn't actually want him to crawl, she wanted him to work for what she wants, she wanted him to please her. To be the controller of the relationship, just like she probably controlled her friends (I'm basing that on what we've seen with Cordelia).

 

[EvilWillow]

We'll just have to disagree about it. The Buffy we saw on the show wouldn't do something like that, and unless she got hit in the head and changed personality, she didn't mean it literally in the flashback.

She wasn't the same Buffy that we saw on the show. I do think she was serious when she said it, however she could have been building it up to make herself look better in front of her friends.

 

[SlayerFest]

If you remember the flash back in Becoming, it shows her being worse than Cordelia. It took years and years for Cordelia to end up the person she became, apparently it only took Buffy less than a year.

When and how was she worse than Cordelia? Was she mean to anyone? I remember her telling everyone to call her...that's about it. She seemed kind of like an airhead and desperate for her friend's approval. Cordelia was a billion times worse in the beginning.

 

[EvilWillow]

When and how was she worse than Cordelia? Was she mean to anyone? I remember her telling everyone to call her...that's about it. She seemed kind of like an airhead and desperate for her friend's approval. Cordelia was a billion times worse in the beginning.

They were her friends. Of course, she wasn't mean to them. Cordelia was never mean to the cordettes.

 

[SlayerFest]

They were her friends. Of course, she wasn't mean to them. Cordelia was never mean to the cordettes.

Haha...okay but they didn't show her being mean to anyone, so how can you say that she was worse than Cordy when we have no way of knowing that? She still seemed kind of ditzy in season 1, but it was toned down. She had to take life more seriously when she became a slayer. Also, she got expelled. I'm sure she lost some friends when it all happened and her life just...changed. Also, she didn't like the way that Cordelia treated Willow in the first episode. She got along with Cordy at first, they had the same interests, but she wasn't cool with her picking on someone for absolutely no reason. I doubt that just happened in one day. We don't know for sure, but we can assume that Buffy may have been a shallow ditz back in the day, but she wasn't mean.

 

[EvilWillow]

Haha...okay but they didn't show her being mean to anyone, so how can you say that she was worse than Cordy when we have no way of knowing that? She still seemed kind of ditzy in season 1, but it was toned down. She had to take life more seriously when she became a slayer. Also, she got expelled. I'm sure she lost some friends when it all happened and her life just...changed. Also, she didn't like the way that Cordelia treated Willow in the first episode. She got along with Cordy at first, they had the same interests, but she wasn't cool with her picking on someone for absolutely no reason. I doubt that just happened in one day. We don't know for sure, but we can assume that Buffy may have been a shallow ditz back in the day, but she wasn't mean.

I never said she was mean at all. I said said she was worse than Cordy, meaning she was more vapid and shallow than Cordy. I couldn't possible know if she was mean or not considering the fact that it only showed talking to her friends. I would never say she was given her reaction when Cordy was rude to Willow in the first episode.

 

[Taake]

They were her friends. Of course, she wasn't mean to them. Cordelia was never mean to the cordettes.

I think we saw plenty of hints that Cordy wasn't very nice to the cordettes the way they behave around her season 1. It got downplayed more and more as she got in more with the Scoobies and hung out less with her 'cordettes' probably losing some of their respect in that process

As for Buffy going from shallow to deep, I think she just matured very naturally and un-drastically. From being 15 and prone to hyperbole she came to her 20's a bit world-weary (more so than most) and thoughtful and humbled towards the world in a way. She grew more secure in herself as her role as a Slayer and her destiny and stopped having the need to vociferously make other people think she was something she wasn't. Like for most people once they leave high school I would say that she just learned that she didn't really care anymore what random people thought about her.

I think she was still the same Buffy, just slightly more mature, just like anyone would have been... I appreciate that, it felt like a natural change to me, it was quite gradual.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

I think we saw plenty of hints that Cordy wasn't very nice to the cordettes the way they behave around her season 1. It got downplayed more and more as she got in more with the Scoobies and hung out less with her 'cordettes' probably losing some of their respect in that process

As for Buffy going from shallow to deep, I think she just matured very naturally and un-drastically. From being 15 and prone to hyperbole she came to her 20's a bit world-weary (more so than most) and thoughtful and humbled towards the world in a way. She grew more secure in herself as her role as a Slayer and her destiny and stopped having the need to vociferously make other people think she was something she wasn't. Like for most people once they leave high school I would say that she just learned that she didn't really care anymore what random people thought about her.

I think she was still the same Buffy, just slightly more mature, just like anyone would have been... I appreciate that, it felt like a natural change to me, it was quite gradual.

I agree with most of it and I wanna add.

she didn't really care anymore what random people thought about her.

We could actually see how much she really cared what people thought of her back then. Like in The Pack, where the horrible kids started getting down on who she is and what she's like, she got hurt. And other times. She never really said so herself, but you could tell it bothered her what people thought.
Lucky for her, what people thought of her, gave her the chance to win an award at the Prom. 🙂
And in season 7, she didn't care what people thought of her. She said exactly what she thought, she yelled at them. Not because she wanted to lash at them or hurt them or because she didn't care about them. But at that point, she understood her mission. She understood her job, and like she said, it's not time for cuddling. The mission is what matters.
That's a change we see very well from season 1 to season 7. It was very gradual, like everything in this series (another example for that is the way Spike saw Buffy. The real and respectful love and everything we see in season 7 didn't happen in one night. And not in one or two seasons). Joss sure knows how to take his time, and I hooray him for that.

 

[SlayerFest]

I never said she was mean at all. I said said she was worse than Cordy, meaning she was more vapid and shallow than Cordy. I couldn't possible know if she was mean or not considering the fact that it only showed talking to her friends. I would never say she was given her reaction when Cordy was rude to Willow in the first episode.

Oh okay, I just assumed you meant that she was mean or something, not really sure why haha. But yeah she probably was more shallow than Cordelia, to some extent. Buffy did say that she made Cordelia look...I don't remember the exact word, but basically, she made her look really smart because she was so dumb back in the day. Maybe Buffy was pretending (hence the rapid transition) apparently some girls act like morons on purpose because they think it's cute. Ha. I mean Cordelia said some pretty dumb things in the early seasons but she clearly wasn't stupid.

 

[EvilWillow]

Oh okay, I just assumed you meant that she was mean or something, not really sure why haha. But yeah she probably was more shallow than Cordelia, to some extent. Buffy did say that she made Cordelia look...I don't remember the exact word, but basically, she made her look really smart because she was so dumb back in the day. Maybe Buffy was pretending (hence the rapid transition) apparently some girls act like morons on purpose because they think it's cute. Ha. I mean Cordelia said some pretty dumb things in the early seasons but she clearly wasn't stupid.

I agree with this. I've seen girls act dumb because they think guys like it because it makes them feel superior. HAH! All of the guys I know think that an intelligent girl is a sexy girl. 🙂

Cordelia was way smarter than she let on, especially when she got her SAT scores. It never told us her score, but it was implied that she did really well. I think she didn't want people to know she was smart, because she didn't want to be considered a "nerd". Which is ridiculous. 😛

But it was never really illustrated that Buffy was smart. I mean she basically had to have Willow carry her through school, so I don't know.

 

[SlayerFest]

I agree with this. I've seen girls act dumb because they think guys like it because it makes them feel superior. HAH! All of the guys I know think that an intelligent girl is a sexy girl. 🙂

Cordelia was way smarter than she let on, especially when she got her SAT scores. It never told us her score, but it was implied that she did really well. I think she didn't want people to know she was smart, because she didn't want to be considered a "nerd". Which is ridiculous. 😛

But it was never really illustrated that Buffy was smart. I mean she basically had to have Willow carry her through school, so I don't know.

Intelligence is extremely sexy. I feel bad for those girls.

Haha and poor Buffy. I think she was smart, she just wasn't book smart. I used to have a friend who would ask really dumb questions at times and from afar...she seemed so stupid. She did alright in school, but when you talked to her about certain things, you'd realize that she had really profound ideas about life and it was just really surprising. I mean Buffy seemed to have common sense, her jokes were pretty witty at times, and she "kicked ass" on the SAT! 😉

 

[EvilWillow]

Haha poor Buffy. I think she was smart, she just wasn't book smart. I used to have a friend who would ask really dumb questions at times and from afar...she seemed so stupid. She did alright in school, but when you talked to her about certain things, you'd realize that she had really profound ideas about life and it was just really surprising. I mean Buffy seemed to have common sense, her jokes were pretty witty at times, and she "kicked ass" on the SAT! 😉

Yeah, I guess. But the SATs don't really measure intelligence. If you test well, you can do well on it.

I've had straight A's my entire life, but the first time I took the SAT I didn't even break 1000. 🙁

I guess she wasn't too bad, but I'm pretty skeptical about her acceptance to NorthWestern. That is a really good school, and I just doubt she had the grades to get in. 😛

 

[SlayerFest]

Yeah, I guess. But the SATs don't really measure intelligence. If you test well, you can do well on it.

I've had straight A's my entire life, but the first time I took the SAT I didn't even break 1000. 🙁

I guess she wasn't too bad, but I'm pretty skeptical about her acceptance to NorthWestern. That is a really good school, and I just doubt she had the grades to get in. 😛

True, but remember, "'I don't test well' she said, 2 days before the SAT" 😉 haha I'm the laziest person on the planet so...I didn't do so grand grade wise. I think the only class that I've maintained an A in over the course of my life (so far) has been English...and I didn't do so well on the English portion of the SAT, and I love English! Ugh.

Anyway, it was implied that Buffy was an average student. I doubt she was as bad as Xander haha and they kind of made it seem as if SAT scores are the only thing colleges look at. I think Willow actually says something about her being able to get into "any school she wants" with her scores. Yeah...maybe competition wasn't as...competitive back then.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

True, but remember, "'I don't test well' she said, 2 days before the SAT" 😉 haha I'm the laziest person on the planet so...I didn't do so grand grade wise. I think the only class that I've maintained an A in over the course of my life (so far) has been English...and I didn't do so well on the English portion of the SAT, and I love English! Ugh.

Anyway, it was implied that Buffy was an average student. I doubt she was as bad as Xander haha and they kind of made it seem as if SAT scores are the only thing colleges look at. I think Willow actually says something about her being able to get into "any school she wants" with her scores. Yeah...maybe competition wasn't as...competitive back then.

That's true. I'm not a stupid person, yet I used to try hard at school, I really prepared myself before exams and everything. And no matter what I did, I couldn't get a good results. Never. (Which was one of the reasons I quit school in the end). So it doesn't really matter how smart you are, if you're not good at tests, you can't really get a good higher education. It's like, there are students who don't work hard at all, but always get such good grades. And they will be the ones getting better education just because they test well. It's really not fair. And it really doesn't show if one is smart or not. Buffy got lucky, that's why she had the chance to go to a good school. Colleges are full of people who test well and those who got lucky 😀

 

[EvilWillow]

Colleges are full of people who test well and those who got lucky

I really don't think that's entirely true. I'm in college because I like school and I work hard at it (most of the time). I know a few people get lazy and flunk out, but the majority of them really want to be there.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

I really don't think that's entirely true. I'm in college because I like school and I work hard at it (most of the time). I know a few people get lazy and flunk out, but the majority of them really want to be there.

Yeah that was a joke on the account on Buffy 😀
But it has some truth to it based on what I've seen in my own life. But I'm in no way saying that every person who goes to college is there because of luck.

 

[SlayerFest]

That's true. I'm not a stupid person, yet I used to try hard at school, I really prepared myself before exams and everything. And no matter what I did, I couldn't get a good results. Never. (Which was one of the reasons I quit school in the end). So it doesn't really matter how smart you are, if you're not good at tests, you can't really get a good higher education. It's like, there are students who don't work hard at all, but always get such good grades. And they will be the ones getting better education just because they test well. It's really not fair. And it really doesn't show if one is smart or not. Buffy got lucky, that's why she had the chance to go to a good school. Colleges are full of people who test well and those who got lucky 😀

I know some total idiots who go to UCLA, USC, etc. haha they test well and they even got straight A's in high school, but they're just...not that bright. I also know some insanely smart people who go to those schools, they make me feel like an absolute idiot. It really just depends. I do believe that it's impossible to base someone's intelligence on grades.

A lot of very smart people, didn't/don't do so well in school. Sorry, this is getting a bit off topic.

 

[Taake]

Yes, please, let's steer this back to the thread topic

🙂