German Lessons

Animals depends...it's die Katze but der Hund...I think it's a bit of what gender we (or probably more our ancestors) associate with that animal .


And these words are important, because cases in German are just a bitca (ask my mother...after 22 years in Germany she still has trouble with the cases from time to time (mostly when she doesn't think about it, and when the word had a different article in Russian)), and well each word has a different article. And these are regular ones, so that means the articles always change, it's not just these words.
 
Okay. And one more (this is it for today, I promise): If I'm asking who did something, how do I know what verb ending to use? Cause obviously I don't know if the answer will be male/female/neuter/singular/plural or whatever. (Along those same lines, what verb ending do you use for "no one"?)
 
For no one you use singular, the form you would use for he or she.
Example: 'Niemand hat das Brot gegessen.'
ans same for 'who' I think.
'Wer hat das Brot gegessen?'
 
B
Blondie Bear
Awesome, thanks.
On a slightly unrelated sidenote, I was watching The Bourne Identity a few days ago and realized that I had read a few signs and mentally translated a few words without hardly thinking about it. Granted, they were simple things (like a tavern called Die Zwei Hund and a particular swear word), but it still made me feel good about myself. 🙂
 
I know what you mean. That's how I feel with some other languages, Spanish or Frenchfor example (I hardly know any Spanish, and only some French, but still it's always nice to come across familiar things), ohhh, and another classic is of course being able to read something written in Russian. Not a lot of people here know how to do this. Strangely I've never done that with English though...
Well, and as far as German signs or anything else Germa goes in movies...signs are okay, but when people attempt to speak in German it's really amusing. I just remember Cordy saying 'Der Kindestod', and Giles' 'Verbirgt euch nicht hinter falschen Gesichtern' (Gingerbread), it's really funny. And of course there was this Nazi officer on Angel 5x13 who was really supposed to be German. And when he talked all I thought was 'That's how Americans think we talk???'
 
Like I wrote in your blog, SS... German is very often used for a little atmosphere, both on TV and in RPG sourcebooks - and most of the time they fail miserably in pulling it off, becoming unintentionally funny. Gee, as if they couldn't afford sparing a few bucks in letting a native speaker glance over it before production, I just don't get it... Like in the written page on screen in Gingerbread, the monk's (was it a monk?) text about "true" Hänsel und Gretel. We both know that was German - not. :lmao:

Btw, I can v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y read the Russian alphabet, but I don't understand anything anymore... had one single 1-semester course "Russian for linguists" at university, pretty much nothing left of that in my brain except the letters themselves.
 
Well I learned the Russian alphabet when I was 7 years old, so I can read pretty decently (unlike others who shall remain unnamed).
And well, the German thing is kind of annoying me...I know they want to create this atmosphere, but for me they turn everything just into a huge joke with it.
There was one Voyager episode ('The Killing Game' or in German 'Das Tötungsspiel') that pulled it off pretty well I think. Well, at least the signs were written in grammatically correct german 😛
 
I
InsaneMystic
Well, they obviously DIDN'T pull off translating that ep's title into anything but cr*p. ;-)
I can't remember if I asked everyone this or just SS, and if I've already posted it here, I can't find it, but I'm having a bit of trouble with word order on stuff like "nicht" and "jetzt." The lessons I'm using initially said to put these immediately after the verb, but sometimes they have them tacked at the very end of the sentence. For example, we have "Ich gehe jetzt nach Hause" and "Nein, wir gehen nicht nach Hause," but also "Die Leherin verstehet den Schüler nicht" and "Herr Leher, ich vestehe die Aufgabe nicht." Can anyone explain the difference?
 
Whoa, one of the things I never thought about... just doing it naturally!

My best explanation is that you put adverbs immediately after the verb if it's intransitive ("ich gehe nicht", "ich warte nicht länger"), but after verb+object(s) if it's transitive ("ich sehe den Mann nicht", "ich gebe dir das Geld nicht"). I can't think of anything disproving that theory atm... but as I said, you just made me think of that for the first time! 🙂
 
B
Blondie Bear
Thanks; I was beginning to suspect that that might be it. I'll see how that works.
Is there a significant difference between da and dort?

I'm beginning to think these lessons aren't the best ever. You'd think they'd explain little things like this.
 
I think 'da' means a closer object, and 'dort' one that is further away. Your questions are getting so tough, I've never thought about any of this
 
There isn't really a difference except for "da" being more general in meaning (e.g. possibly being used to denoted time instead of place, in the meaning of "and then": "Er hat mich beleidigt, da bin ich gegangen.") You can pretty much always use "da" instead of "dort", but not the other way around.
 
machen is 'make' and tun 'do' so my idea would be thinking about when you use which in English.
e.g. : To make a cake, einen Kuchen machen
To do the dishes, den Abwasch tun

Well, now that I think about it, there might be a better rule. I think 'machen' could be used whenever you create something, or take influence upon something, while 'tun' refers to something where you rather just participate in something. And also, to me it seems like 'machen' can be used a lot in cases you would normally put 'tun'.
 
Social Suicide said:
machen is 'make' and tun 'do' so my idea would be thinking about when you use which in English.
e.g. : To make a cake, einen Kuchen machen
To do the dishes, den Abwasch tun

Well, now that I think about it, there might be a better rule. I think 'machen' could be used whenever you create something, or take influence upon something, while 'tun' refers to something where you rather just participate in something. And also, to me it seems like 'machen' can be used a lot in cases you would normally put 'tun'.
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I cringe at "den Abwasch tun"... I would definitely use "machen" in that case.

Originally (as is still easily visible in the words, etymologically) "machen" equalled "to make" (creating smth.) and "tun" equalled "to do" (being active, without a fixed result/end). However, "machen" can nowadays, especially colloquially, be used pretty much always where you would think of using "tun". You're probably on the safe side using "machen" more or less exclusively, while it will always be wrong using "tun" where you'd say "to make" in English.

Actually, using "tun" often may give you a mildly bad reputation with some people, as "tun" is overused by speakers with little knowledge of grammar, as an auxiliary instead of regular conjugation: e.g. "er tut sagen" (please don't ever use sentences like that!! while you do hear this stuff said, e.g. in TV talkshows, it is considered awfully bad German by just about every even semi-educated speaker) instead of the correct "er sagt". Many "education snobs" avoid "tun" whenever possible because of this association with bad grammar.

The only case I can think of atm where I see a clear difference in meaning between "Tun" and "machen" is the questions "Was hast du getan?" vs. "Was hast du gemacht?"
"Was hast du getan?" has a strong undertone of importance, drama and severity (that's what you'd be saying, e.g., when you discover someone has committed a crime, corresponding to English "What have you done?") while "Was hast du gemacht?" is much more neutral, corresponding to "What have you been doing?"
 
Tueuse de Vampires
Tueuse de Vampires
hey! My Dad uses this 'er tut sagen' stuff a lot! And we ARE educated...I hope
See, I thought it would be like that--using "machen" when we're talking about creating or influencing and "tun" when it's just a vague doing--but the lessons tricked me again and used "machen" in "What are you doing after school?" That's why I was asking. I'm very confused.
 
Here we go. . . . (I haven't learned any tense besides present yet, so bear with me. Also, if you need to correct me, please do it in English! Danke!)

Ich versuche zu sprache Deutsch. Es ist schwierig. Es machst mich fülhe dumm. Bitte lauchst zu mir nicht.

(Good grief, that took forever cause I had to look up almost every word, declension, and case. But I've nearly got the verb conjugations down!)
 
I hope I'm not disappointing you too much, but that's still quite a bit off...

Blondie Bear said:
Ich versuche zu sprache Deutsch.
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With "versuchen", you have to use "zu + infinitive".
If you use a verb with "zu" and it has an object attached, the object must go before the "zu + verb".

Blondie Bear said:
Es ist schwierig.
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That's fully correct - both the sentence and, sadly, its meaning. 😉

Blondie Bear said:
Es machst mich fülhe dumm.
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The "make" in "It makes me feel..." shouldn't be translated with "machen". You should either use "lassen" in this case, or go for a slightly different way of wording altogether, using "deswegen".
Also remember that "fühlen" in the emotional meaning is reflexive in German, so it needs a reflexive pronoun to be used with it.
I'm sorry, but the conjugation form of "it makes" is off too. "Machst" is the 2nd singular, you need the 3rd singular.
Also, the word order is the other way around in English than in German with feel + adjective.

Blondie Bear said:
Bitte lauchst zu mir nicht.
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The German for "to laugh at someone" is "jemanden auslachen". The conjugation is, again, wrong; you need the imperative form here. (Actually, this sentence is rather tricky, I guess - getting the "nicht" at the correct position, since the verb "auslachen" is one of those that will detach its prefix in imperative...)


Do you want to try again with this help, or would you prefer giving you the correct translations directly?
 
*whaps head against wall* I'm never going to actually learn all this. There's too much to think about. Especially with possessives and prepositions. *long sigh*
 
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