Giles' Apology

[Kelsey]

I like Spike as a character a LOT, but I am one of the first people to admit that he was a threat to everyone in the beginning of Season 7, so I can understand why Giles and other characters were skittish about him being around.

True, it was dangerous. There's no getting around that. Spike was definitely dangerous when the First triggered him, and I understand Giles' concern. I even understand Wood's desire to kill Spike, because that was personal. But Giles undermined Buffy's authority in doing what he did. She made a decision, he thought she didn't make a good enough one, and he went behind her back to do what he wanted to do.

He's always telling Buffy to lead, to accept her calling, yet he doesn't follow her once she does? He doesn't trust the decisions she makes after he's pushed her into the leadership role? Giles should have trusted Buffy's judgment. It was just too easy for him to write off her beliefs and her decisions and go his own way. And ultimately, if Wood had succeeded, the world could have possibly ended. Buffy may have been making her choice based on emotion, but saving Spike was the right thing to do. Either no Champion would've been around to save the world, or Angel would've had to. And then Angel wouldn't have been able to do his own world-saving back on his show.

 

[sk]

He's always telling Buffy to lead, to accept her calling, yet he doesn't follow her once she does? He doesn't trust the decisions she makes after he's pushed her into the leadership role? Giles should have trusted Buffy's judgment.

That is what really bugs me the most with this.

I totally understand that Giles doesn't trust Spike. But that he doesn't trust Buffy kinda breaks my heart a little...

/SK

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

That is what really bugs me the most with this.

I totally understand that Giles doesn't trust Spike. But that he doesn't trust Buffy kinda breaks my heart a little...

/SK

I agree. He did what he thought is the best, he doesn't trust Spike and he thought him is going to be bad for the whole situation. Maybe he really belived Buffy is in love with Spike and he knows what's she like when her love is in question, but I don't remember she gave him a reason that he can't belive her.

 

[white avenger]

He doesn't trust the decisions she makes after he's pushed her into the leadership role?

Either no Champion would've been around to save the world, or Angel would've had to. And then Angel wouldn't have been able to do his own world-saving back on his show.

I agree completely that Buffy was the one in charge, a fact that they had all been perfectly happy with right up to the point that some of the Potentials had to start earning their way by actually doing some of the fighting themselves. As the person in charge in what was in fact a wartime situation, her word is law, not suggestion, and not optional. Buffy had on more than one occasion made it quite clear that she both trusted and needed Spike. She needed his strength, and she needed his experience. The two of them represented probably 95% of the group's entire fighting force. It might seem extreme to say, and difficult for quite a few here to grasp, but, given the circumstances og Giles' and Wood's actions, Buffy would have been completely within the scope of her authority to banish or even execute them for trying to countermand her specific orders concerning Spike. As it was, she was actually quite merciful in simply closing the door in Giles' face.

And as for Angel being the Champion and wearing the amulet, that was pretty much the Senior Partners' idea when it was given to him. If the plan had worked out that way, then he would have been the one who was helpless for the first several weeks of Season 5.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Hmmmm... I never really thought about it like that. You've given me something to think about, definitely, WA.

 

[white avenger]

Hmmmm... I never really thought about it like that. You've given me something to think about, definitely, WA.

It was even more blatant when the entire group joined together and threw Buffy out in "Empty Places," which really isn't part of this particular thread, but their actions there constitute absolutely nothing short of mutiny, which, in time of war or emergency situation, of punishable by death
.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Yeah... I remember being so shocked at what went down in "Empty Places". Of all of them, I thought that at least Dawn would have Buffy's back.

 

[Kelsey]

Yeah... I remember being so shocked at what went down in "Empty Places". Of all of them, I thought that at least Dawn would have Buffy's back.

I was shocked and disgusted by it. I will never understand what the Scoobies were thinking.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Me either... And honestly, I'd never thought about the fact that Giles had always encouraged Buffy to embrace her role as the leader, but when she tried to lead [i[him[/i] he revolted and did what he wanted to do anyway. 🙁 I do agree with him that Buffy was letting her emotionals rule her decisions a little too much, but when you put it that way, I can see that yes, Giles did owe Buffy an apology. But I still say she owed him one, too.

 

[Pryce]

It was never seen on screen, but do you think that Giles ever apologized to Buffy about his part in trying to have Spike killed? Just before she slammed the door in his face, he was TRYING TO EXPLAIN HIS ACTIONS, but I never saw ant part of a "please forgive me for going behind your back..." type of statement forthcoming.

I think it was understood he was sorry. I dont really know if theres a proper way to apologise for that. "Gee im really sorry for almost killing one of the loves of your life,Would you fancy a crisp?" but yeah i dont really know if either of them are fully right. Spike is truly a threat at the begining of season 7 and buffy does tend to forgive that a little easily cause of her obvious bias. And I do think he would of done the same with angel,hell if he felt it was neccessary even willow or xander or dawn. But still he tried to help murder a person she cares about. I dont know if theres a right answer.

 

[BuffyElevated]

"Gee im really sorry for almost killing one of the loves of your life,Would you fancy a crisp?"

LMFAO I don't know why I am so entertained by this, but I literally LOL'd at the thought of that as a scene.

 

[PixieGiggles33]

This is kind of a subject where I feel torn. I know if I found myself amongst a huge battle, I'd be the determined and logical leader-type, fighting for what was right and what was for the greater good, but I'd struggle when it would come to emotions. It's hard to be pragmatic when love becomes involved, especially. I'd certainly feel torn between love and fighting the good fight, especially since I believe that love is the strongest force in this world...

I think that's why Buffy was often so cut off from people sometimes. She loved with all her heart, but she also had a side to her that had to be the businesslike stronghold, and she often had to use utilitarian methods (to get the job done) that ended up shutting out even those who loved her unconditionally.

I suddenly remember the episode "Helpless," when Buffy was stripped of her Slayer abilities. Giles was fired for his affections for Buffy. Quintin Travers' words were, "You have a father's love for the child, and that is useless to the cause." The Watchers Council seemed to think that Giles' love for Buffy rendered him ineffective to "the cause," meaning the fight for the greater good.

I want to believe that Giles was trying to do what was right by allowing Robin to access Spike. I want to believe that Giles had reason because I know that ultimately he was a good person with good intentions. Even though Spike had a soul, he still had the ability to be dangerous, because that's the nature of the beast, quite literally. He was still a vampire. At that point, he was still vulnerable to the trigger... But it's complicated because there was such a strong bond between Buffy and Spike, and though she didn't admit it, especially to herself, she loved him...

GAH. Too much thinking!!! I don't even know how to end this thought process and wrap it up, but those are my thoughts anyway... LOL

 

[LadyLavinia]

It was even more blatant when the entire group joined together and threw Buffy out in "Empty Places," which really isn't part of this particular thread, but their actions there constitute absolutely nothing short of mutiny, which, in time of war or emergency situation, of punishable by death.

Strange that many have failed to assume this attitude, when Buffy told the Watchers Council to take a hike. Frankly, I find it all hypocritical.

It's okay for Buffy to reject authority figures. But when she becomes an authority figure, screws up and is rejected by others, everyone is suddenly a great advocate for adhering to a higher authority. Jeez! Hypocrisy, thy name is HUMAN.

Buffy had every right to tell Giles to take a hike after he had betrayed her. The Scoobies and the Potentials had every right to reject Buffy's authority after she had failed to be satisfactory leader.

 

[Kelsey]

Strange that many have failed to assume this attitude, when Buffy told the Watchers Council to take a hike. Frankly, I find it all hypocritical.

It's okay for Buffy to reject authority figures. But when she becomes an authority figure, screws up and is rejected by others, everyone is suddenly a great advocate for adhering to a higher authority. Jeez! Hypocrisy, thy name is HUMAN.

Buffy had every right to tell Giles to take a hike after he had betrayed her. The Scoobies and the Potentials had every right to reject Buffy's authority after she had failed to be satisfactory leader.

Buffy was fighting a war. I don't think the others were quite as clued in on that fact until they started dying. Buffy may have made a wrong call, but to quote Bones in the new Star Trek movie: ""If you wanna ride in the Kentucky Derby, you don't leave your prized stallion in the stable." Buffy was all they had. And more than that, she was the best they had. Faith was strong, sure, and helpful, but she couldn't lead.

When you pick a leader in war (and make no mistake, they picked her), you don't turn your back on him or her because of one wrong call. The Watcher's Council was outdated and cruel, but Buffy was not. She was strong and tough and she had earned their respect. It's okay for Buffy to reject authority figures, but it is not okay for her friends to reject her. They could disagree with her, even reject her decisions, but to kick her out of the house? Unprotected and into a world full of chaos and danger, no less? I think Spike said it best: "You sad, sad, ungrateful traitors."