Giles killing Ben

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I saw a discussion in the r/buffy Reddit that got me thinking.

Does anyone know that Giles killed Ben? If Buffy knew, how would she feel about it? Let's discuss.

 

[twoslayers]

I think Buffy would be disappointed in Giles, they wouldn't talk for a few days, then they'd have it out, have a heated discussion, and then they'd move on.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Buffy died ten minutes after Ben did. It may have escaped her notice. But given the themes and nature of Season 6, she probably wouldn't care that much, that has to feel like a "lifetime" ago.

 

[wolfheart]

Better that she didnt know

 

[thrasherpix]

Now I wonder what happened to Ben's body. Maybe one of the things that came through ate it. Or perhaps it was covered up as usual.

I think Buffy would understand, but it would be better for Giles not to bring it up. It could be an interesting conversation that illustrated the character of both.

It could even become a reason Giles leaves for awhile in season 6. Just about anything for why he left would've been better than the reason we were actually given.

 

[Stake fodder]

I think Ben's death got lost in Buffy's dying. But I would bet that Giles would never tell anyone about it.

 

[hoponlilmama]

Does anyone know that Giles killed Ben? If Buffy knew, how would she feel about it? Let's discuss.

Always wondered about this too. I don't think anyone knew. My guess is that with Buffy dying, they were too distracted and distraught to even think about what happened to him.

And then the writers dropped it.

For Giles, it was a 'doing what must be done for the greater good' mindset. The series has never been consistent with 'not killing humans', and considering Buffy very likely killed humans herself, I don't think she's able to say much.

Giles stopped a Hell God from every returning, otherwise the risk of her returning would always be there. The moral discussion over the sacrifice of one to save many.

 

[NotASlayer]

At the time, there was too much going on after the battle for anyone to care about Ben. If anyone thought about it, and even knew he was dead, they probably assumed he died in battle with Buffy.

And then the writers dropped it.

Yes; so many things were dropped, ignored or outright changed in S6 (and S7 for that matter) that I have to wonder if the writers actually watched the first five seasons.

Giles stopped a Hell God from every returning, otherwise the risk of her returning would always be there. The moral discussion over the sacrifice of one to save many.

I would disagree about Giles not considering himself to be a hero when doing it. As you say, he prevented a Hell God from returning permanently, and he took on a moral burden on himself, and kept it off Buffy, for doing that. Sounds somewhat heroic to me.

 

[hoponlilmama]

At the time, there was too much going on after the battle for anyone to care about Ben. If anyone thought about it, and even knew he was dead, they probably assumed he died in battle with Buffy.

That's a good point, I could see why they'd make the assumption that Ben died in all the chaos. Perhaps a reason why they never questioned it again?

Yes; so many things were dropped, ignored or outright changed in S6 (and S7 for that matter) that I have to wonder if the writers actually watched the first five seasons.

...that said, considering they knew of the Ben/Glory connection (I'm refraining from cracking a joke about it!) you'd think someone would maybe question in s6/s7 what might've happened to him.

I would disagree about Giles not considering himself to be a hero when doing it. As you say, he prevented a Hell God from returning permanently, and he took on a moral burden on himself, and kept it off Buffy, for doing that. Sounds somewhat heroic to me.

No, I agree. When you think about it, he saved the world. Giles in all his Englishness, rolled up his sleeves and got on with it. He did what he had to.

Buffy might not see it that way, but I'd wager the others would see it as heroic and/or necessary.

 

[NotASlayer]

...that said, considering they knew of the Ben/Glory connection (I'm refraining from cracking a joke about it!) you'd think someone would maybe question in s6/s7 what might've happened to him.

If they thought about it, assuming they found the body afterwards, I would guess that they might believe, as Ben is Glory (🙂), that Glory reverted to Ben on dying. That is something that's quite common, especially with shapeshifters, they return to a normal form on death (wasn't there something about the difficulties of eating actual werewolf flesh in Angel S5 because of that very thing?).

 

[hoponlilmama]

If they thought about it, assuming they found the body afterwards, I would guess that they might believe, as Ben is Glory (🙂), that Glory reverted to Ben on dying. That is something that's quite common, especially with shapeshifters, they return to a normal form on death

Yes, true. Other media shows shapeshifters reverting to their original form.
I guess no one wanted to go back to the site, or hang around there after Buffy died.

(wasn't there something about the difficulties of eating actual werewolf flesh in Angel S5 because of that very thing?).

Probably from this episode?
https://buffy.fandom.com/wiki/Unleashed

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

P.S. He probably called a "cleaner" to take care of the body. If the Watchers don't have an auxiliary unit in Sunnydale, they probably know who does provide those services.

Second, Buffy told Ben to skip town and never return. She has no reason to question that.

 

[hoponlilmama]

P.S. He probably called a "cleaner" to take care of the body. If the Watchers don't have an auxiliary unit in Sunnydale, they probably know who does provide those services.

That is indeed a possibility.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Now, having said that, one of the rumors about "Buffy, The Next Generation," was that the Watcher would be turned into a vampire at some point during the first season, so the question of just how much free will the lurks have, may have been examined. If you want to go with a human pathology, an addict who loses touch with their humanity, becomes corrupted by their enhanced senses and the thirst, and just ends up just viewing humans as food. Vamps aren't evil, they just view you as food, and can't be bothered to make friends at their considerable age. That could work, and it's a change to the canon that could generate some good stories. But, this is assuming TNG has a series bible.

 

[NotASlayer]

P.S. He probably called a "cleaner" to take care of the body. If the Watchers don't have an auxiliary unit in Sunnydale, they probably know who does provide those services.

Second, Buffy told Ben to skip town and never return. She has no reason to question that.

If there's no body, there's no crime... 😀

It's a shame that there was never really a proper treatment and examination of the Watchers and their, considerable, resources.

Vamps aren't evil, they just view you as food,

Which is why in The President's Vampire series. Cade compares vampires having sex with humans to humans having sex with a cow.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

If you notice in the scene, Ben is far away from the chaos going on with the scoobies. Giles finds him and tells him that Buffy is a hero who wouldn't harm a defeated attacker. But he would. The method Giles chooses is to suffocate him. From a distance, it would look like Giles is ministering to Ben's injuries, but we see clearly that he suffocates Ben to death. None of the scoobies know about it. With all the injuries, no one would suspect it unless there was an autopsy that may not have found the petechial hemorrhage you get with strangulation because of the gentle pressure applied only on the face to a victim with limited mobility. In the midst of all the other injury, Giles would have gotten away with it and if there was any question, the Watcher's Council would have defended him.

How would Buffy react? Later in the series she says that she might not have defended Dawn once she had been through the process of dying and she may have been OK with Giles killing Ben - after all, she had killed some of the Knights who were hunting them down. I think she would have been OK with it after maybe some minor objections.

 

[KaitKat]

I always assumed that the Scoobies put it together in the days/weeks after Buffy’s death. I don’t think any of them ever brought it up with Giles or Buffy.