Giles...lest we forget S5

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silvephantom

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I was reading another thread about Buffy being a killer...many people brought up great points...she kills the souless creatures of the night, as well as some humans {Byzanthyum Knights in S5} but that was self defense, right? To the point, she kills evil things...and even when she was tricked into believing she killed Katrina, Buffy let out a range of emotions, like guilt, and anger...which is expected...

Willow, of course, we all know, killed Warren in S6, sending her into a downward spiral leading up to the finale...this changed the Willow character forever...

But S5, the end of our Buff' for the summer...something happened that may have changed a character, but it wasn't shown...it made me ponder. Giles kills Ben, in his human form, to get rid of Glory. Yes, it was for the better and safety of the world, but he took a human life. It changes you. Joss never fully explored this topic, and never built much on it. Maybe because Giles had already been revealed as a young hoolagin, dubbed 'Ripper', and his dark and uncontrolled magic led to the death of a friend. In my opinion,they didn't touch such deep emotions and feelings with Giles then, than they did with Willow.

What do you think?
 
mmmm

perhaps he is paying for it -- his relationship with Buffy did deterate somewhat during this season---


I gotta think about it more ( maybe I can find some essays and analyses mmm analyses)
 
No one really knew that Giles killed Ben, yeah? Willow, Xander, and Spike were off fighting the followers and Buffy was already running up the tower thingy to save Dawn.

I think Giles would have been okay with people dying, especially sense (well, it seemed to me) that he killed some people in his "Ripper" days. Also, he was all fatherly to Buffy so (supposedly) fathers do anything to save their child.

I have no idea what I'm talking about... 🙂
 
i never really thought about this.... so thanx for making this thread! you pose a very interesting topic... but like berkeled said, this is really something to think about.... but i do think i agree with you.. at least a little, maybe they should have explored it more on the show... maybe giles didn't get that affected by it? maybe he didn't see it as killing someone human... maybe (to protect himself) he kept his thoughts on Glory.. the more i dig into it, i sorta wish they would have explored it, csuse now i kinda wanna know what giles thinks of it LOL
 
I think it was in Lies My Parents Told Me, when Buffy and Giles are at the cemetary, and Giles talks to Buffy about killing Spike.. In the original version (or in the script I don't know) Giles was supposed to tell Buffy about him killing Ben, because he had never told anyone about that. But then the writers decided that it had been almost two years and that noone really cared about that anymore..
 
It needed to happen. I know Ben was the human form of Glory but he was still a form of Glory. It was the only way of getting rid of her. She was impossible to kill. I don't think Giles should have payed for it because it was the only option and by doing it he was preventing an evil being from hurting more people.
 
True, true, all true. Maybe the writers didn't want people to be flipping back to season five when it's done and over with...but still I CARED! hehe...it's been bugging me ever since I watched the episode.

I know Giles had to do it. It was to get rid of Glory and save the world...but still, the writers had a big peice of juicy storyline there....ah, well...Joss is Boss.
 
I think I read this topic in a book - What Would Buffy Do? which talks about Giles being the only one in the show to get away with murder, so to speak. *Rummages about for book* I agree with you guys, that it would have been nice in that episode of season seven to include a little something about this.
 
Maybe they were gonna explore it in s6, but Tony decided not to be there most of the season. Maybe if Giles had been there more, we would have seen more of it. For all we know, it might be a reason Giles wanted to leave...Maybe he felt guilt over killing Ben, and felt he could never tell the others, and needed to go away...
 
C
Cordelia
Great Point!
Also to take the Willow killing Warren vs. Giles killing Ben into question...Willow's killing Warren didn't (directly) have an effect on whether or not the world would remain, while Giles killing Ben was the necessary course of Action to rid the earth of Glory.
 
I never relay thought of Giles killing Ben. But now that I'm thinking about it I was thinking of why Giles killed Ben. As Elmo said:I know Ben was the human form of Glory but he was still a form of Glory. It was the only way of getting rid of her. She was impossible to kill. I don't think Giles should have played for it . I agree with you. But if Giles didn't have to pay why did Willow have to pay or Buffy? I mean Warren was evil he killed Tara and tried to kill Buffy. Also he played so many tricks on Buffy. One witch made her think she killed Katrina. And Buffy tried to kill Faith for Angel But this was something the Scobey's had no prob. with... At lest not that big"¦ But I do not get why they give Willow such a hard time? Also if you want to get way in to it you can go and say that for Buffy it's ok to kill Vamps. But she can't kill Angel Cuz he has a soul. Or Spike cuz of the Chip. But what if there was another Vamp. with a soul that she staked would that be wrong? Ok I'm rambling now I'll shut-up...
 
I think it's fine that Giles killed Ben. That's how Glory could be killed, there was no other way. I don't think that it's fair to say that humans don't have to pay for their mistakes because they have souls. In the beginning it said that killing a human changes you and its really bad, but isn't it worse to be evil with a soul than without one? You should really know better. I think that this just showed that Giles realized that some humans are worse than demons and need to die. I don't think that killing Ben phased him at all, and it shouldn't have.

By the way, the killing people things I talked about on here? I meant on BtVS. I don't really think that people should go around killing other people because they're mean. Sorry if I came off kinda harsh! 🙂
 
Giles has, I'm guessing, been through training as a watcher to be able to do such things as take a human life for the greater good and I'm guessing he's done other things as a watcher that are less than admirable but still he should still feel emotion about what his done however we know Giles is an interllectual and kind of objective, as am I so it seems likely killing Ben wouldn't cause him much guilt as it was the best thing to do, it needed to be done and if he hadn't done it then someone else would have had to do it after glory reamerged and killed loads of people inc. the scoobies so in a way it was self defense.

Also i wouldn't have liked to see Giles dealing with guilt because i think it would have been boring
 
Willow had murdered Warren for revenge. There is no excuse for killing someone (even if that person is evil) for such a reason. People call it justice. It's really about indulging in one's selfish desire to strike back at the person who has hurt you. Which is probably why it is a crime.

As for Giles' action against Ben . . . I'm not going to say that it was wrong. But I don't know if I wholly agree with what he had done.
 
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