Giles - Male Authority or Supportive Father Figure?

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You've probably discussed this one already, but since I'm new to the board, I'll post it anyway. =)

Since Giles first comes off as an authority, do you think Buffy is under his command or is he just like support? Been reading about Buffy and feministic perspectives on the show, though I regard it as feministic, this is one of the issues that has been brought forward. Does Giles have the power over her?or the council for that matter? and because they are male, do you think she is just an instrument of patriarchy or is Buffy the boss of Buffy?

I guess the answers will be quite obvious, but I still find it intresting to discuss.. :redwink:
 
Personally thinkk that Buffy is her own boss. I think Gile's tries to teach her and guide her as best as he can. I definitely don't think that Giles controls her since he became her watcher when she was at an age capable of making her own decisions, she didn't need to be controlled, she just needed guidance.
 
Yes it is interesting to discuss, I definitely agree with you. When I first started watching Buffy I always thought it was stupid 'cause it was trying to be a feministic TV show but still the female hero had a middleaged white male who decided over her and was her "boss". And yes I did think Buffy was just "used", more or less.. Or as you put it, " an instrument of patriarchy". But I have really changed my mind about this. At first, Buffy Giles is of course trying to decide over Buffy, in a way. But the reason this show is about Buffy and not just a slayer is because Buffy (compared to slayers like Kendra) really doesn't follow anyone's orders. After a while she doesn't even need Giles, she needs him as a father figure and friend and all but it is definitely not like he is in charge of her or anything. As I've said many times before, Buffy isn't perfect but I think she is a good (feministic) role model, and that BtVS is definitely a feministic TV show.

(And also, the council aren't all males... just most of them, heh.)
 
no one has the power over her. she proved that when wes tried to be her watcher and she quit the council. when she rejoined it was under her terms. noone could be the boss of buffy. Giles was like a dad to her. as shown in helpless when thats the reason for him being fired. also in the same episode, when her dad couldnt take her to the ice show, she wanted giles with her.
then there was the whol conversation about maggie thinking buffy had an absent father figure and giles being all upset about it.
 
I'm starting to think Joss created kind of a hybrid of the classic mono-myth.

http://www.byfaithonline.com/CC/CDA.../1,,PTID323422|CHID664018|CIID1840010,00.html

Traditionally, the hero and the guide are both male.

I think that Giles was both an authority figure and a loving father figure. Buffy was lucky to have both in the same man. Joyce was a pretty good modern traditional mom and female mentor. Although she was clueless about Buffy's life early on and not much help...

I think the show represented the sad state of affairs in the modern Western World. High divorce rates, children often left with no adult male role model in the house. I think that's bad for both boys and girls.

Giles was both a mentor and a substitute father for Buffy. The Watcher's Council seemed to be a fairly traditional, patriarchal institution. I think Joss did that on purpose to create a "feminist challenge" for Buffy.

The great thing about Giles is that he had an open mind. He could be wimpish at times. But he did eventually rebel against the Watchers. He saw the value in traditions, disciplined behavior. Yet, he also knew corruption when he saw it and helped Buffy fight against a dysfunctional system.
 
But Giles should not have been a substitute father for her. She already had a father who was still alive. If Buffy wanted a father that badly, maybe she should have made the effort to contact him. I also noticed that Giles tried to distance himself away from the role of Buffy's "father".

In fact, Giles should have never had "any" authority over her. He was not her legal guardian, or her parent. And I don't think that the role of Watcher should not have given him any control over her in the first place. It's ironic that in Season 7, Giles finally tried to "be a father" to Buffy . . . and she eventually let it be known that he had no right to do so.


One last thing - after thinking about the whole Slayer-Watcher system, and the Council of Watchers, I find the idea of the latter and what they had done to thousands of girls, appalling.
 
I agree that Giles doesn't legally have any real authority over Buffy.. And obviously he is not her real father, but her father wa absent and what's wrong with her finding a new "afther figure"? Hank clearly didn't care enough to be a real parent and I don't think there's anything wrong with Buffy finding someone else to have a parent-role in her life. I actually like that he is a father figure in some way, of course he shouldn't be allowed to decide stuff over her but that doesn't mean she doesn't need a father figure in her life.
 
Yea, Hank (Buffy's father) was so clearly abscent, and I don't think it should be up to her to keep that relationship alive. The parent has the responsibility, os should have anyway. So I don't find it strange or wrong at all that she found something of a father in Giles. As many of you others already said, he did in no way decide over her though, no one can do that.
 
It's easy to hate on the Watchers and the Council, but they are doing the dirty work in secret so humanity can thrive. Yes, it's a shame that many slayers lived harsh, brutal, and short lives, thanks to being pulled into service by the Watchers, but it's a cost that had to be paid.
 
maybe so but if they're doing it for the sake of humanity, why couldnt they have made more than on slayer? how is one girls supposed to be everywhere at once? its not like evil is only where the slayer is? Doesnt seem fair to me.
 
WatcherWes said:
It's easy to hate on the Watchers and the Council, but they are doing the dirty work in secret so humanity can thrive. Yes, it's a shame that many slayers lived harsh, brutal, and short lives, thanks to being pulled into service by the Watchers, but it's a cost that had to be paid.
Click to expand...


That doesn't give them the right to use teenaged girls and young women like that. They have NO RIGHT to use those girls, no matter how many demons and vampires walk the earth. That is no excuse.

I believe that was the point Mutant Enemy was trying to make in episodes like "Counterpoint", "Graduation II" and "Get It Done".
 
Exactly Lady Liv!

It is true that no matter how you slice it, the council used these women. It may have been for the greater good, but if they wanted someone to fight the demons so bad, why not just imbue THEMSELVES with the stregnth? No, rather than do their own dirty work, they chose to have scape goats who died in a line to protect them with no choice of their own.

As for the role of Giles in the series, I never believed him to have control over her whatsoever. From the first episode, it is clear that if Buffy chooses not to slay, the council and it's watchers are screwed-there is really nothing (within law) that they can do about it. Time and again Buffy defies Giles wishes and all she gets is some admonishment. It never really seems to faze her cuz, in the end, the one that's fighting and dying, the one with ALL the power, is the slayer herself.
 
how were they to imbue themselves with power? The only humans who used magic to make themselves physically stronger were Willow, Jonathon and Lindsey. In each case the effects were temporary, but in Will's and Jonathon's cases, threatening to the planet.
 
I think that Giles (and any watcher for that matter) is intended to be the authority figure; running the slayer's life as if she were a puppet (This is clearly shown in the episode where Buffy learns how the first slayer was made: the slayer is just an instrument to help a bunch of fat and balding men fight evil, because they are too wimpy to do it themselves).

And I think in most cases, that is the case. The Watcher is the authority.

But with Giles, Buffy could not be controlled and told what to do. She was very fiesty in the early years, and in the later years began to control things more (for example season five and six, Giles was somewhat useless) I think that this makes Giles more of a supportive person. Not necessarily a father-type figure, all though he could be, but just an older person who is there for any kind of support that Buffy might be needing.
 
I think that the reason why Giles was more supportive than other Watchers is that in the end, he had no choice . . . and he had developed feelings for Buffy.

Giles DID try to control Buffy. Not only that, he tried to curtail her activities outside of slaying so that she could concentrate more on her duties. However, Buffy would not give him that control. Well, sometimes she did buck under his control. But the older she got
 
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