"Giving The Slayer What She Deserves"

[white avenger]

I haven't watched that ep in awhile, but I always thought that Spike went looking to get his chip out, but instead that demon said "Bahaha, you should have been more specific. Have a soul, SUCKA!" I am getting a feeling from some of these posts that he specifically went to get his soul back?

Joss has confirmed on several occasions that Spike's one and only reason for going to Africa was, indeed, to regain his soul. Anything else was just smoke and mirrors so that the "We return to you...YOUR SOUL!" scene would be more of a shock to the audience (It didn't work on me, because I already knew that he was going to get his soul, but that's a totally different subject)

Even without the soul OR the chip, however, I seriously doubt that Buffy would have just arbitrarily staked Spike on first sight. If nothing else, he had been too much help to her and her family over the previous couple of years for her NOT to have given him a chance to prove himself. Kept a close eye on him, certainly, but still given him the benefit of the doubt until he proved himself to actually be evil again. As has been pointed out on more than one occasion, Buffy has a tendency to give people who she trusts and cares about (and yes, I believe that she still trusted snd cared about Spike even after "Seeing Red,") every chance possible to prove themselves. Don't ask me why that didn't apply to Anya, because I really don't know, but it most certainly applied to Willow, who was just months past trying to destroy the world, so giving Spike the same consideration goes without saying.

 

[Lyri]

I am getting a feeling from some of these posts that he specifically went to get his soul back?

He mentions in S7, more than once, that his goal was to get his soul back, yes. We were led to believe that he wanted the chip out, but whether the writers changed their minds and decided that making it out to be a ploy by whatever demon returned his soul would cast a bad light on Spike, or not, by the time S7 was being written, his end goal was his soul.

I guess, considering Spike was to be the 'hero' in S7 ( Kean, I can see you rolling your eyes) that if he had wanted the chip removed, so that he could bring death and destruction back to Sunnydale, but got conned into having his soul returned instead, it wouldn't paint Spike in the best light and people might not be able to relate to him as the one who saved the day.

 

[white avenger]

Well, as it turned out, Spike's going to Africa DID lead to having his chip removed, and not behind Buffy's back, either. You could say that, in earning his soul, spike also won Buffy's faith and trust to the point that she had no doubts whatsoever that removing the chip was the proper thing to do.

 

[TaylorSwift]

I think she would've stake him right and proper without a soul and without a chip. Buffy's duty comes first and he would've been a serious threat to not only Buffy but everyone around her. She killed Angel when she loved him because she had no choice and she had to so I can't see why she wouldn't kill Spike..LOL

 

[white avenger]

I think she would've stake him right and proper without a soul and without a chip. Buffy's duty comes first and he would've been a serious threat to not only Buffy but everyone around her. She killed Angel when she loved him because she had no choice and she had to so I can't see why she wouldn't kill Spike..LOL

You just answered tour own question. Buffy sent Angel to hell (as alive as he ever was. A sword through the heart DOES NOT kill a vampire) BECAUSE SHE HAD NO CHOICE. There was no other immediate way to close the portal, and she couldn't afford to wait around hoping that one would present itself. The world was in danger and it was her job to protect it.

On the other hand, consider: Spike goes to Buffy at the beginning of Season 7 (not driven insane from regaining his soul) just like he does in "From Beneath You..." and says, "I want to help you in your fight. I'm not asking for forgiveness for what happened last year, because what I did was inexcusable. But I can still help you in your fight. I'm the single greatest asset, the most powerful warrior at your disposal, and I WANT TO HELP. But, before you decide what to do, you have to know that i no longer have a chip controlling. my actions. What I do, from this time forward, won't be because of something that the Initiative forced me to endure, it will be because this is what I believe is the right thing to do. I want to be a better man, and what's more, I want to prove to you that I CAN be a better man, no chip, no soul. You can lock me away in your basement and only let me out when we have to fight. You can chain me up on a leash like a bloody dog. Just give me the chance to prove to you that I can be a better man. Let me be a partner in your fight, the ally that you need to keep the world safe. If I fail you, then stake me, and I won't put up any kind of struggle."

I'm not saying that Buffy would throw herself into his arms or drag him up to her bedroom, she might not put her total trust in him immediately, but I honestly do believe that she would give Spike the chance to prove himself. That's how Buffy reacts. Call it a fatal flaw if you want to, but she has shown, time and again, that she is always willing to give everyone a second, or even third chance if the sincerely want it.

 

[TaylorSwift]

You just answered tour own question. Buffy sent Angel to hell (as alive as he ever was. A sword through the heart DOES NOT kill a vampire) BECAUSE SHE HAD NO CHOICE. There was no other immediate way to close the portal, and she couldn't afford to wait around hoping that one would present itself. The world was in danger and it was her job to protect it.

On the other hand, consider: Spike goes to Buffy at the beginning of Season 7 (not driven insane from regaining his soul) just like he does in "From Beneath You..." and says, "I want to help you in your fight. I'm not asking for forgiveness for what happened last year, because what I did was inexcusable. But I can still help you in your fight. I'm the single greatest asset, the most powerful warrior at your disposal, and I WANT TO HELP. But, before you decide what to do, you have to know that i no longer have a chip controlling. my actions. What I do, from this time forward, won't be because of something that the Initiative forced me to endure, it will be because this is what I believe is the right thing to do. I want to be a better man, and what's more, I want to prove to you that I CAN be a better man, no chip, no soul. You can lock me away in your basement and only let me out when we have to fight. You can chain me up on a leash like a bloody dog. Just give me the chance to prove to you that I can be a better man. Let me be a partner in your fight, the ally that you need to keep the world safe. If I fail you, then stake me, and I won't put up any kind of struggle."

I'm not saying that Buffy would throw herself into his arms or drag him up to her bedroom, she might not put her total trust in him immediately, but I honestly do believe that she would give Spike the chance to prove himself. That's how Buffy reacts. Call it a fatal flaw if you want to, but she has shown, time and again, that she is always willing to give everyone a second, or even third chance if the sincerely want it.

Ok..that's right..she had no choice but would she let a terrifying powerful vampire like William The Bloody, who tried to rape her, around everyone? Of course I'm not saying that right after he shows up, the second she sees him..she stakes him. I'm saying she would know he's a threat, she'd think about it a little maybe but at the first sign of his..how shall I put it..bad behavior..he'd be staked right and proper..that's what I think. I can imagine Spike just wandering around town on the prowl (because without a soul and chip he'd kill to feed..I don't believe for a second he'd drink animal blood)...Buffy can't allow him to go out and eat innocent people..she's a Slayer after all, she can't allow all those people's deaths.

 

[Carrrrgh]

I don't think she would have staked spike right away if he came back soulless and chipless.

She and him had bonded in the last few seasons and him trying to rape her, well that hindered things but Buffy is always willing to give people more chances than they deserve.

If Spike had come back to town, soulless and chipless and ready to fight alongside her and promise not to kill and be a better man ect ect ect... She would definitely without a doubt given him another chance. You can't deny that she still had a soft spot for Spike, even after his actions in the bathroom scene. And then him being gone for so long, you can't deny that Buffy was probably thinking about him and wondering when he would show his face again.

Now if Spike came back to sunnydale soulless and chipless with a vengeance and on an out right mission-to-kill-Buffy, she would have killed him but it would have been hard for her.

Bottom line, IMO after the events of seasons 4-6, Spike could never have been evil again, he had been through too much with the scoobies to kill them. Soulless or not, Spike always was conscious of his actions and he always knew right from wrong.

 

[Kana]

The question I'd ask if I were Buffy is "Why did he go through so much trouble to get his chip out. His motivation to get a soul seemed pretty strong to endure the trials, so if he went through all that effort to remove the chip I'd be sceptical that it was just an 'inconvience'.

I'd agree that Buffy wouldn't stake him right away because after everything they'd been through, he would at least deserve a chance to explain himself, but to be honest that's all he should get. Also, he have to have damn good explanation as to why and if he didn't have one, I think it should be stakes a plenty. Whether Buffy actually could do that I'm not sure, but I'd hope she would.

 

[white avenger]

I'm saying she would know he's a threat, she'd think about it a little maybe but at the first sign of his..how shall I put it..bad behavior..he'd be staked right and proper..that's what I think. I can imagine Spike just wandering around town on the prowl (because without a soul and chip he'd kill to feed..I don't believe for a second he'd drink animal blood)...Buffy can't allow him to go out and eat innocent people..she's a Slayer after all, she can't allow all those people's deaths.

But the entire point of my scenario is that Spike WOULD continue to live on animal blood, because he was trying to prove to Buffy that he was able to control his natural predatory instincts. And as for Buffy being able to allow a vampire to continue to prey on humans, she did exactly that in Season 2. Remember the scene in the mall, right after using the rocket launcher, she had Angelus pretty well beaten and ready to be staked, but she just couldn't bring herself to finish him off? That made her directly responsible for everything that he did afterward, and she knew that at the time.

Even if you consider the fact that Season 7 Buffy is more experienced, more realistic, more in focus with what her mission actually was, the biggest difference here would be that Spike would be under her constant control, either with her or chained up in the basement, for as long as it would take to convince her that his intentions were, indeed, sincere. Remember, he went to Africa to "Get the Slayer what she deserves." I never got the impression, even when we didn't know for sure just what he meant by that phrase, that he had any intention whatsoever of harming either her or her friends, or killing again (and, yes, under the same circumstances, I would have advocated giving Angelus the same chance to prove himself)

And.like I said before, I believe that Buffy would have given Spike the chance to prove that he can be more than a monster.
To paraphrase the immortal Captain James T Kirk, "Yes, I'm a monster, a predator, a killer. But I won't kill TODAY. And if you will let me, I will make that same vow to you every day from now on. I won't kill TODAY." That's all that he was asking for. One day. Until the time when Buffy could no longer with a clear conscience give him that one day.

 

[Lyri]

Okay, but we were being led to believe that he was on his way to get the chip removed. What would be the point of him getting rid of it if he wasn't going to back to his evil vampire ways? He was already capable of helping Buffy fight demons, so if he was still planning on fighting on her side, why get it removed?

Some sort of test for Buffy, to prove that Spike could still be the good guy without his leash? Maybe.

But then the whole misdirection thing becomes moot. If we weren't supposed to believe that his end goal was death and destruction, then there was no need for the bluff.

 

[patriot1123]

I haven't watched that ep in awhile, but I always thought that Spike went looking to get his chip out, but instead that demon said "Bahaha, you should have been more specific. Have a soul, SUCKA!" I am getting a feeling from some of these posts that he specifically went to get his soul back?

This is exactly what I thought, too. I didn't realize until well until season 7 that he intended to get his soul back. (He says so, IIRC, sometime during season 7.)

 

[Chosen Enemy]

This is exactly what I thought, too. I didn't realize until well until season 7 that he intended to get his soul back. (He says so, IIRC, sometime during season 7.)

I knew. But it was because I'm a spoiler slut 😀
And if Joss fooled everybody with that, he must have done a damn good job writing it this way!

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

If Spike had actually gone to Africa at the end of Season 6 to get his chip removed, as we were misled into thinking that he was doing, how differently do you think that Buffy would have treated him in Season 7?

Hmm. Interesting question.

It depends on what Spike's reason was for getting the chip removed. So he could start killing again, or because it was endangering him?

 

[white avenger]

What would be the point of him getting rid of it if he wasn't going to back to his evil vampire ways? He was already capable of helping Buffy fight demons, so if he was still planning on fighting on her side, why get it removed?

How aout to prove to Buffy that it didn't require either a hip OR a soul for him to be a better man. To show her that, unlike Angel, he could be a better man, for her, because he WANTED to, not beause of a soul that was forced on him by a bunch of Gypsies or a chip that was forced on him by a bunch of commandos. That he was that much more of a man than any other other vampire who couldn't be trusted to be anything but a killer and a monster without something of that sort.

 

[LadyLavinia]

She might have had feelings for Spike, I would never deny that, but you have to remember that this is the same girl who sent Angel to hell when his soul was intact. Just because she loved someone doesn't mean she wouldn't kill them if the fate of the world and the people she loved depended on her doing that.

I almost pointed out that a chip free Spike would have to do something first, before Buffy would consider killing him. Look at her actions with Anya. Everyone knew that Anya had resumed her role as a vengeance demon. But it wasn't until the deaths of those frat boys in "Selfless" that Buffy even bothered to go after her.

But . . . Buffy has a habit of killing vampires, even when they haven't done anything. So perhaps she would immediately kill him. But why do that? Why kill vampires immediately, yet wait for demons to be a threat before going after them? This is one of many reasons why I my doubts about the existence of Slayers have been growing steadily over the past months.

 

[PassionBecoming]

Avenger and Lyri - Thanks for the clarification. I haven't watched Season 7 in awhile, so I don't remember all of the references.

I really don't think she would have staked Spike unless he started killing. How many times has she walked into Willy's and seen demons and vamps sitting in there, but does nothing? If she had cause to slay, then she would, otherwise it's "live and let live".