God, the Father...?

[Tru Mackney]

Okay, I'm not trying to offend anyone with this thread. I'm just wondering everyone's opinion on this. This thread is mainly for BB's Christian members, but you all are open to post your opinion.

Okay, so the story is like this...

I was in Spanish class today and I was looking up "poner" in my Spanish-English dictionary. As I was looking for this word, I stumbled upon the Spanish word for "penis" and for some strange reason, I began to wonder if God (the Christian God) had a gender. You hear him referred to in the Bible as "the Father" or "Him", but does he have a gender? Does God really need a Penis? Also, if God does have a gender, is he male or female? Is God a masculine being, a feminine being, or did society just assign him this gender role?

The concept of God has always confused me, and I think that's why I'm so fascinated by him/her/it.


So...what do you all think of this? Do you think he's a man? Does God have a Penis?

 

[The Chosen]

Very interesting question. I've thought about that a bit.

While I think it WAS society that assigned God that gender, it'll always be impossible to find out one way or the other. And since "Father" is a term created by mankind, it's even harder to figure out. In my mind, anyway.

Did that make sense?

 

[Tru Mackney]

I actually had a dream once where I saw God. He told me something, but I can't remember what it was. That was one of the most amazing dreams I have ever had.

 

[palabravampiress]

The Christian concept of God comes from the Jewish concept of God mixed in, of course, with various polytheistic concepts of God popular throughout the Roman Empire. The Jewish concept of God is predated by the early Semitic concept, which was itself polytheistic. There is even still evidence of this in the Bible today, especially in those passages in which God is referred to in the plural ("elohim," often translated into English "us," as in "let us go down and...") and in which he is referred to as having sons (the sons of God mating with the daughters of Man, for instance). This polytheistic concept of God was similar to most polytheistic concepts, with one God and his female consort standing as the creators at the top of a hierarchy of gods, all of whom had different powers and dominions. So, originally, yes -- El, the father god and creator god who eventually became The One God of the Hebrews probably did have a penis (or at least some celestial sort of reproductive function), as he would have needed it in order to father children with his consort.

But, of course, the concept of God is about more than what we can trace back through the ages. It is also about what people believe in the here and now. In the here and now, this same God is called by many names, but he is worshiped by the Jews, the Christians, the Muslims, and various sects and offshoots of those religions as a single entity (with some allowances made for the Christian trinity and also for vestigial remnants of polytheism like angels and jinn). In this monotheistic concept of God, he lacks a consort and is instead an individual creator. This more recent concept of God has no consort and therefore has no need of gender. Even the Christian version of God, who does father a son, makes it clear that the human mother is a virgin and, therefore, was impregnated by mystical means rather than by normal sexual intercourse. In this case, the gendered pronoun "he" is as vestigial as is the use and translation of the plural elohim and the inclusion of lesser gods translated as angels, jinn, and other creatures.

One must not also forget the cultural influence of the religions, nations, and ethnic groups in which the monotheistic God is worshipped. The male gendered pronoun must also be indicative of the largely patriarchal cultures from which monotheism sprung and into which it was most easily assimilated later. I think it fairly reasonable to assume that, was the monotheistic concept of God adopted by a matriarchal society with a language reflective of those values, the gendered pronoun in common use would probably be female. If it was adopted into a gender neutral society with a language reflective of those values, the pronoun would probably be gender neutral. As Western Civ becomes increasingly influenced by feminism and open to gender neutrality, I think it very likely, even, that the language (and the pronoun for "God") may change accordingly over time.

So that is my opinion. I think El had a penis. I think God/Allah/Yaweh/Etc. has no practical need of one and is increasingly conceived of as gender neutral. In the future, I think it likely that the language will change to reflect that. It's all just a matter of etymology + culture.

 

[Washburne]

palabravampiress: Seems like a great post, but I have a little problem grasping all of it. I think I need a translation, so I could give a proper response. I´ll leave that to other members for now.

I´ll simplify this way to much but "God the father" and "Mother earth" sounds like a good combination. But personally I think God is more like a concept than an actual being with gender.

 

[LorneyTunes]

God

God its a bit hard to make that choice because in my eyes God is just a being of great mass and if you meet God i think God a appears the way you choose like the big cat , because having faith is all your idea your not forced to believe it ! Its all about how you feel and In the eyes of a child Mother is GOD . I almost lost my belief when i lost my mother but i believe shes up there drinkin tes more likey so yeah God isn't a he or a she its what u think it is , thats just my op x

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Going back to the Jewish thing, in Jewish mythology Adams first wife was kicked out of the garden because she wouldn't submit to Adam.
The first wife's name was Lilith she became the first demon. As far as I remember Adam and Lilith's first born was Cain, he killed his brother. Lilith and Cain got together, literally, when they had both been thrown out of the garden as all their children were demons, if the Jewish faith is anything to go by was Lilith the first vampire?
The only reason I know that stuff is because I was researching for my fanfic.

 

[Hello Cutie]

I don't know much in terms of other religions etc, but I can tell you that in Islam, God is very rarely referred to as him, except for when ease of speech requires it. I think the whole useage of a gender term is purely for ease of referral, rather than because Allah/God has a gender that is male.

Also, a rough translation of part of our prayers into english say- 'He begot none, nor was he begotten'. Aka, that didn't help create life by birth through penetration and insemination, and that Allah wasn't created that way either. So, no, judging by that, no penis, no gender.

 

[Blondie Bear]

I think God is neuter, but in English we have only one neuter pronoun, and it seems sort of disrespectful to run around calling God "it." I think "he" is just a convenience that got turned into doctrine through long use. I don't think God cares WHAT pronoun you use, as long as you're using it respectfully.

 

[randiann]

I agree with BB and Hello Cutie. I think its just more for practicality than anything else that we tend to refer to God as "he". Except when God is played by Alanis Morresette (sp??? help with that one please!!!)

 

[Washburne]

I agree with BB and Hello Cutie. I think its just more for practicality than anything else that we tend to refer to God as "he". Except when God is played by Alanis Morresette (sp??? help with that one please!!!)

Yeah, Alanis was quite good as god, and quiet.

Even if it´s practical to say "he" I believe that the fact that it´s a "he" and not a "she" is simply because that men ruled the world (so to speak) and they had no desire to give the position of creator and "master" to a woman. No matter how pathetic it sounds. But I do know there is other religions wiyh female gods.

And I´m sorry but I don´t understand what you want help with.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Sorry Hello Cutie, but if the First was Lilith then because Lilith gave birth to Cain, and Adam was male. That would mean that the first was corporeal and female.
I didn't put the specifics of Lilith being booted from eden as I didn't want to be seen as inferring the Jewish faith was sexist, but Lilith was seen as not subservient to Adam because she refused to have sex in the missionary position.
But getting back to the question, wasn't there a thing that about the holy ghost Jesus and God being the holy trinity. If that's so then as Jesus was a man then God is a man.
What's that bit in Genesis 1:26 about we created him in our image after our likeness. We it is argued is the holy trinity. Adam was the first, so that would indicate God was/is a man.
Me saying Lilith being the first vampire was speculation, a vampire is a demon and as nothing was mentioned about what type of demon [they needed Anya there] I simply suggested Lilith was a vampire.
Then there's the thing about God being referred to as he. But I reckon that's got more to do with men running religions, I mean how many religions are there that have the head figure of a woman? Yet a lot of the pagan religions did have women up there.
Most witches are meant to be women, who states you shall not permit a witch to live.?
If God showed up tomorrow and God was a woman, but that open's up a whole different can of worms.

 

[JCC]

God is referred to as a 'he' because that's the basis of most religion. Male superiority.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Ooh, I like that one JCC. If each religion states God is a he, then that is sexist, is being sexist illegal? I'll have to check.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Ooh, I like that one JCC. If each religion states God is a he, then that is sexist, is being sexist illegal? I'll have to check.

 

[apocalypse]

Why does it even matter? What is the point of debating whether or not God is male, when in all likelihood God doesn't even exist?

 

[Crazy Flakes]

Well, I'm agnostic, but if God does exist, I'm almost certain that He/She/It doesn't have a gender. I don't think God is really a being...I've always though of God as sort of an entity or presence instead of the old, gray-haired guy in the sky. I actually think that if God does have a gender, it'd make more sense for Him to be a female. He is depicted as the entity that gave life to everything, and that sounds very motherly to me.

Referring to ILLYRIAN's first comment, I think that the Bible's stories are, as Willow would say, "a load of horse hooey." The Bible depicts women as inferior. God is thought to see everyone as an equal. It just doesn't balance out. There are a million other reasons, too. To be honest, the more I hear about the Bible, the less convincing it sounds.

 

[T.I.P]

The Bible is man made though, it aint like God wrote it, and it aint like the western bible is the same as the original.
And it dosnt make sense god would be female. it dosnt make sense for god to be male either though.
Only reason for male/female is to reproduce, otherwise whats the point, God didnt need to do that. And it takes female and male to give life, so it isnt just motherly.

 

[InsaneMystic]

Me saying Lilith being the first vampire was speculation, a vampire is a demon and as nothing was mentioned about what type of demon [they needed Anya there] I simply suggested Lilith was a vampire.

It's a well-grounded speculation. The probably first known vampire myth was from ancient Mesopotamia/Babylon, involving noncorporeal female demons who turned into the corporeal form of winged and clawed beautiful women in order to seduce men and feed on their blood... and they were called the Lilitu (from this point there probably spawned both the vampire and the Succubus/Incubus legends).

If I got the timeline right, it's likely that the ancient Jews picked the name "Lilith" from this demon instead of the other way around, so Lilith was in all likelyhood supposed to be the first of the Lilitu.

 

[Angel's vision]

First off, Adam and Eve were the first humans as I believe the Bible depicts.They dissobey God and get kicked out of Eden, then they have their first offspring. The comment about man and women dipicted as unequal has annoyed me, the Bible does not depict one master over the other, rather both are equal and both should in a love relationship for example obey each other. Eph 5 says that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves us, in that he gave his life for us.Wives are to respect their husbands. That does not depict any unequality at all. Queen Esther was chosen to save her people, there was also a prophetess named Deborah.

People can say they believe the Bible to be written by man, or that they don't believe in God but to say it like it is fact is another thing. You can't proove both.
As for God having a gender, he doesn't need one. Jesus was the vessel in which God was seen and heard. God created both sexes with organs for multiplying over the earth to create new life as he can and did.