Gunn/Fred

[Cherchezlafemme]

I remain firmly in favor of this relationship. Sure, Gunn was a little underdeveloped as a character, and Fred was a trifle Mary-Sueish, but they fit, IMO. I just don't get Fred/Wesley--is it because they're both smart and like to read? Wesley is so much more complex than Fred, he outgrew her really, when he turned dark. Gunn was simple and quiet, and I really feel he made Fred a bit more down to earth as she had a tendency to act as though she were on a pedestal and needed to be worshiped. Gunn did admire her immensely, but I never felt he abased himself the way Wesley did.

 

[BillyidolwannaB]

Agree completely. Gunn and Fred seemed really suited to each other. Even if you take away the physical attraction they had, they also seemed like real good friends, like they could hang out and relax easy. I loved in s3, around about loyalty. Vamps attack them, Gunn Commands her to run, but she comes back to save him. My favorite Frunn moment. Yeah, i def ship Frunn from Angel.

 

[Kean]

I love Funn! Seriously, of all the realtionships that happened on Angel this was my favourite. I actually think it makes me resent Fresley a bit because I think Funn was ended (rather inexplicably IMO) just so Fred and Wesley could get together. To me Fred's reaction to Gunn's killing of the professor was completely ooc to how they had behaved as a couple before that point. Out of all the ships we saw in the verse Funn seemed the happiest and content. They just worked, util they didn't. Not only that I think it signalled the end of Gunn as a truly interesting character capable of growth. For me when they killed the relationship they kinda killed him too.

 

[Cherchezlafemme]

Not only that I think it signalled the end of Gunn as a truly interesting character capable of growth. For me when they killed the relationship they kinda killed him too.

I agree, which is a shame because Gunn was never developed as fully as he should have been. I loved his relationship with Angel (you notice that when Angel is on the stairs, mourning the discovery that Cordelia is happy on a higher plane, Gunn is the one beside him, while Fred is on the couch): it was very mentor/fatherly, and the writers certainly could have played that up. Or, they could have made Gunn's acquisition of lawyerly smarts a bit more nuanced--rather than have him acquire the smarts immediately, he could have been shown feeling alienated and intimidated by his lack of use in W&H, and his signing off for that sarcophagus that killed Fred would have made more sense (as we would have seen the agony of his decision made out of feeling unwanted). There was so much that could have been done with Gunn, hence why I hated the addition of Spike in Sn 5.

 

[Megalita]

I actually liked Fred with Gunn, but at that point, my feelings towards Fresley were pretty dormant. Strangely, I was always pretty indifferent towards Gunn, and I suppose that I liked Fred so much that I enjoyed what she brought out of him despite my intial opinion.

Later in the series -- first when Fred and Wesley kissed in the office and then continuing into S5 where they got "drunk" together at the W&H party (I was on edge at the romantic/sexual tension) -- I became pretty adamant about the Fred/Wesley relationship. The reason why I like them together so much is because Fred was Wesley's light at the end of a tunnel, no matter how dark a tunnel it may have been. Their relationship was built up so heavily from the beginning of their meeting, a one-sided love turned mutual only to be destroyed by a tragic end. But, hey, I am sucker for things like that.

Anyway, I did like that Gunn was so upset about being the one to let Illyria's tomb pass customs, indirectly taking a part in Fred's death. I wished it was more played out. It's obvious he still cared about her.

 

[Cherchezlafemme]

The reason why I like them together so much is because Fred was Wesley's light at the end of a tunnel, no matter how dark a tunnel it may have been.

But why does Wesley need a light at the end of the tunnel? Why doesn't Gunn? Also, this makes Fred less of a character, less of a real woman, if her only role is to serve as a "Florence Nightingale" to a man. Hence, why I don't like Wesley/Fred: she's too Mary Sueish, and Wesley's adoration further increased her lack of agency (particularly as her entire run on the show was defined by whom she was in love with--first Angel, then Gunn, then Wesley). It was also really annoying how she turned to Wesley for romance after breaking it off with Gunn--how could she be unaware or uncaring as to how her place in the love triangle tore Gunn's bromance with Wesley apart.

 

[Spike Angelus]

I'm in the Funn camp. They seemed natural together. Maybe it was the chemistry between AA and JAR, but it seemed much more realistic than Fresely.

 

[Megalita]

Ahh, I just typed up a whole reply to your comment and lost it! So I am going to try again.

But why does Wesley need a light at the end of the tunnel? Why doesn't Gunn?

We don't see a drastic transformation of Gunn. His hardships and growth, though real, are minuscule and not a major plot point like Wesley's -- from the alienation and abandonment he faces in S3 to the shaky re-admittance into the gang in S4, which all the while illustrates some dark moments where the viewer is unsure of his alliance. Despite this, Wesley's love towards Fred still shines and his motives are clear when it comes to her; we even see that he puts aside differences and helps the gang in The Price, where Wesley informs Gunn of the antidote because Fred is infected.

Fred seems to be his priority and even the reasoning for some of Wesley's actions (such as the example above, as well as shooting his "father," and even dismissing Lilah in a sexual mockery of Fred in a innocent schoolgirl outfit and glasses. At this point, I guess it's appropriate for me to add that I did actually love Wesley/Lilah!)

Also, this makes Fred less of a character, less of a real woman, if her only role is to serve as a "Florence Nightingale" to a man.

Hmm, I have never even thought of this. Fred, to me, is an example of a strong character, female or otherwise. Examples? I may be missing your reference of "Florence Nightingale" entirely, though! 🙂

(particularly as her entire run on the show was defined by whom she was in love with--first Angel, then Gunn, then Wesley).

This is may be true to extent but in that way, the same could definitely be said for a lot of the characters in the Buffyverse (and even in real life.)

It was also really annoying how she turned to Wesley for romance after breaking it off with Gunn

Well, they did kiss.

 

[Tasha]

I'm in the Funn camp. They seemed natural together. Maybe it was the chemistry between AA and JAR, but it seemed much more realistic than Fresely.

I so agree with ya ^
Their relationship seemed so natural, and more real.
I loved Frunn, i never used to get the whole 'fresley' ship until years later.

 

[HellmouthPodcst]

I feel like the relationships with Gunn and Wesley were both appropriate, especially in light of when the relationships occurred. When Fred and Gunn were together she had just recently returned from Pylea and was still lost and trying to adjust to the new world. She needed someone who could support and nurture her re-integration into our world. Wesley was incapable of fulfilling that role at the time. Gunn was the soft, supportive partner that she needed.
In season 5 when Fred and Wesley finally ended up together, Fred was a very different person. She was confident, in control and established. Her lab, experiments and intelligence had ebcome her primary focus as a person and this is something the Gunn despite his brain upgrade could not participate in or relate to. Fred didn't need support, she needed a peer for a partner and Wesley was much more appropriate in those circumstance.

 

[Lilah]

First time round I disliked Frunn but after rewatching Angel recently I grew to like them as a couple. They were one of the most normal couples of Buffy/Angel, until the whole Professor thing destroyed that for them. I'm all about Fresley though!!!

 

[LadyLavinia]

It's a pity that Fred moved on to Wesley. I think she was better off with Charles. Their relationship seemed more normal, instead of an uneasy adolescent romance with tinges of incest, which was Wesley and Fred.


Why do people call Charles by his surname?

 

[Connor Holtz]

It's a pity that Fred moved on to Wesley. I think she was better off with Charles. Their relationship seemed more normal, instead of an uneasy adolescent romance with tinges of incest, which was Wesley and Fred.


Why do people call Charles by his surname?

I agree completely, Gunn and Fred were the ideal couple and I hated Fresley getting to gether in s5.

Because that's what he wanted. He liked being Gunn.

 

[Misty]

Even though I prefer Fresley, Weslah comes first for me and I'll be fine with Fred and Gunn together. They had good relationship that was natural, and they did love eachother alot.

 

[caitaintdead]

I'm not a huge fun of Frunn. I just don't feel that there is that intense spark that interests me in other ships. I think they had a very cute, happy, first love type of relationship, but I just couldn't find anything that made me enjoy watching this couple. Having said that, I'm not entirely sold on the concept of Fresley either. I think Fred probably could have done with just being alone. I got a little bored of seeing her worshipped by every male she meets. It seemed a little to Mary-Sue-ish.