Has Buffy actually beaten any of the Big Bads?

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Billy_Blood

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Ok, I'm starting to think Buffy isn't as great a slayer as she's cracked up to be.

Look at The Master. When she faced off against him, she died! If Xander hadn't given her CPR, the Master would of won! She's just lucky she got a second chance.

Than Angelus. Yeah, she beat him, but only after he got his soul back. He was still fighting strong, Buffy only got the chance to kill him after he stopped fighting.

And the Mayor. She had no way of beating the mayor. They had to use explosives.

And Adam? She needed to join her essence with Giles, Willow, and Xander to be able to beat him.

She was no match for Glory. She kicked her butt again and again. She was only able to get her down with the help of the dagon sphere and troll's sledge hammer. And Giles had to finish Ben off.

She didn't even have a final battle with Evil Willow. She was way too powerful for her to handle.

So, without her friends around, she would of died a lot more than two times.
 
Yep, I've always said that Buffy is alive because of her connection to the world and to her friends. That's why I think it's understandable that she fights for her inner circle, sometimes at the risk of the rest of the world. (Two quick examples are Willow and the box of Gavarok and Dawn.) People critisize her for it, but it's where she draws her strength, even if she doesn't always acknowledge it.
 
Originally posted by Billy_Blood
Ok, I'm starting to think Buffy isn't as great a slayer as she's cracked up to be.

Look at The Master. When she faced off against him, she died! If Xander hadn't given her CPR, the Master would of won! She's just lucky she got a second chance.
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True. But in the end, it was Buffy alone who killed the master.

Than Angelus. Yeah, she beat him, but only after he got his soul back. He was still fighting strong, Buffy only got the chance to kill him after he stopped fighting.
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Not entirely true. Angelus was on his knees in front of the statue when his soul came back. Buffy was just about to deliver the killing blow when his eyes flashed and he said "Buffy?"

And the Mayor. She had no way of beating the mayor. They had to use explosives.
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What? Explosives don't count as a weapon? It was her plan, afterall.

And Adam? She needed to join her essence with Giles, Willow, and Xander to be able to beat him.
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She didn't do it alone, that is for sure.

She was no match for Glory. She kicked her butt again and again. She was only able to get her down with the help of the dagon sphere and troll's sledge hammer. And Giles had to finish Ben off.
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Point is that Buffy beat Glory down. Willow sapped her mental energy so she could fix Tara, helping Buffy was an added bonus. Buffy beat Glory and saved the world.

She didn't even have a final battle with Evil Willow. She was way too powerful for her to handle.
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True.

So, without her friends around, she would of died a lot more than two times.
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That is what makes Buffy so special and so irritating to the Watcher's Council (not to mention the first slayer). Her strength lies with her friends and her ties to the world, without them, the world would have ended at least three times. Once with Angelus, once with Glory and once with Evil Willow.

That makes her a better slayer than has come before.
 
She wouldn't have been here without her friends. And her friends wouldn't have been here if it wasn't for her. (the Wish)

That's why I think it's understandable that she fights for her inner circle, sometimes at the risk of the rest of the world. (Two quick examples are Willow and the box of Gavarok and Dawn.)
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She should fight not only for her friends, but for the world aswell, I guess she does that and the Scoobies aswell, fighting for both!

Help me out with the box of Gavarok! Was that one of the pieces for the Judge or those spiderboxes of the Mayor?!?!?
 
I would say since Buffy has survived as long as she has... she is a good slayer.

Ultimately, she was the one who deafeated the Master, Angelus would've been peirced by the sword had his soul not returned because he was on his knees, losing, there wasn't another way to defeat the mayor except for a volcano, Adam was strong, but she beat him with the help of the others, Glory was a God for christ's sake, of course she needed other tools to defeat and in the end she sacrificed herself to save the world, She was in a big hole and couldn't get to Willow to stop her, and she did defeat the Uber-vamp....

all in all, she rocks... She did kick Faith's butt
and Willow and Xander would've been dead in their sophomore year... so, BUFFY IS A GREAT SLAYER
 
I don't think her friends' help make her a worse Slayer, rather, it's an asset to her. True, her friends have helped her numerous times, but maybe that shows she's a better Slaery, because she's willing and able to get help when she needs it.
 
You misunderstood me. I was trying to say that if it weren't for her friends she'd be dead, so it's good that she has them. Ok, I was wrong about Angelus(I haven't seen that ep in years) but the rest is right.
 
Originally posted by Billy_Blood
You misunderstood me. I was trying to say that if it weren't for her friends she'd be dead, so it's good that she has them.
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Here is exactly what you said.

Originally posted by Billy_Blood
Ok, I'm starting to think Buffy isn't as great a slayer as she's cracked up to be.
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and

Originally posted by Billy_Blood
So, without her friends around, she would of died a lot more than two times.
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Its pretty hard to misunderstand that.

Average life expectancy for a slayer is what? 20? Buffy is now 22+ and shows no signs of dying, she keeps getting stronger and stronger.

In season 2, Angelus told Spike that he had never seen a slayer as powerful as Buffy. This was her junior year in highschool. What made her so powerful? What gave Angelus a reason to say that?

Anyway, while your statements are correct about how the Big Bads were defeated are true (except Angelus), your conclusion is faulty.

Buffy is the strongest slayer, both physically and mentally, because of her friends, not in spite of them.
 
Buffy is the strongest slayer, both physically and mentally, because of her friends, not in spite of them.
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No, so is physically probably better then some of the other slayers, mentally weaker, but because of her friends, she still managed throughout the years!
 
Originally posted by Allycat
No, so is physically probably better then some of the other slayers, mentally weaker, but because of her friends, she still managed throughout the years!
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Mentally weaker?

She has Willow, Xander, Giles and even Dawn to share her burden with. Just because she struggles with her destiny as a Slayer doesn't make her weaker. I would say it makes her stronger because she DOESN'T just accept her destiny, she questions it.

That takes more mental strength and character than to blindly follow what you're being told by your watcher.
 
That's true there's a strange irony about Buffy. The things you would expect to make her weaker, actually make her stronger.

She questions things. Kendra didn't. Kendra is dead.

Slayers before her chose to walk the path alone. Buffy surrounded herself with the high school's losers. By some strange chemistry this gave her added strength to the point that even Adam recognized it in the Yoko Factor. Adam had no worries concerning Buffy's solo power, yet he didn't want any part of Buffy with her support system.

Here's another cool irony about Buffy. Buffy is all the time finding herself in situations that would lead her to believe Evil is the force with true power in the world, yet she refuses to accept the obvious conclusions. She blindly follows the seemingly weaker path of the good guy, yet she always comes out on top.

The special power of Buffy that separates her from the slayers that came before her, seems to be her ability to take the path less traveled.
 
Kudos!

Very well said, nerd4hire!

So, without her friends around, she would of died a lot more than two times.
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Actually, she would have only died once, cuz her friends wouldn't be there to bring her back. 😛 😛

There's ironic humor there, I'n just not bringing out very well.
 
well actually the way i see it... all the big bads have actually won, just to be defeated after they do

The Master was freed
Angels awoke Acathla
The Mayor ascended
Adam locked the demons and soldiers
Glory opened the portal
Warren used the orbs of nezzla khan
 
I don't consider willow the big bad of season 6, warren was the big bad... the fact that willow became evil was caused by him
 
Willow was the big bad, she tried to destroy the world, but didn't succeed!
 
Originally posted by Laruuk
Mentally weaker?

She has Willow, Xander, Giles and even Dawn to share her burden with. Just because she struggles with her destiny as a Slayer doesn't make her weaker. I would say it makes her stronger because she DOESN'T just accept her destiny, she questions it.

That takes more mental strength and character than to blindly follow what you're being told by your watcher.
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I completely agree. It takes so much more strength to believe in something and follow it, but to question it as well.


Remember, Buffy's one of the oldest Slayers around EVER. All the other Slayers though, had few ties to the world. They didn't accept help from friends and family. They had a First Slayer mentality... that they were the be all and end all. I think Buffy has survived because she lets people in. She has ties to her friends.

Remember what Spike said in "Fool for Love"? That Slayers let themselves be killed because they don't see the point anymore? They're so detached from the real world, nothing anchors them in it, and so they give up, in a sense. He said that Buffy's been around for so much longer because she still has ties to the world. I think those ties are what keeps her going, and makes saving the world worthwhile.
 
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