Having More Faith

white avenger

white avenger

white avenger
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Assume for the sake of argument that Angel hadn't returned in Season 3, or had only stayed long enough to recuperate before leaving town for good, that Faith never went bad, and that she stayed on the show through Season 3 or 4, or even possibly on through to "The Gift." Do you think that she would have stayed basically an outsider to the gang, just extra muscle to count on during a fight, or would she have actually become part of the "family?"
 
Lots of if, buts and maybes. I know that wasn't the question, but if ever Angel had not come back, I think Faith could have had the same role in s3, and then she would have taken over the role of Angel in the sense that they would have moved her to her own show. So if Faith has gone bad, I see her staying an outsider and moving away on her own path.

But, had Faith stayed good, I think she would have gotten closer to Buffy. I do think that eventually, they would have developed a close friendship, they are bound too since they are the only two slayers in the world, and Faith has no one else out there for her. I think Faith might have stayed a bit on the outs from Willow and Xander, really like every other person on the show that joined the group later on. Like Angel, or Riley, or Anya, or Tara were never really involved with all three of them (B, W and X). I think Faith would have been closest to Buffy, but would have hung out with the rest of them as per usual for an outside character. She might have grown closer to Giles, but honestly it always seemed like Giles didn't care enough for Faith. He always favored Buffy.

From s3, to me it seems obvious that Faith thought she was closest to Buffy. Even Faith didn't seem to care much for the other characters, but she always seemed to care about Buffy. Didn't matter if it was jealousy, love, friendship, hate. Feelings were always at their strongest between Faith/Buffy.
 
More Faith is always good! lol. Hmm. If Angel came back and left earlier I think that Faith and Buffy would have grown closer as friends. As much as I would want her to be part of the family. It's always going to be the core four then everybody else. Yea I don't see her being close with Willow, and it's clear that she only see Xander as a boy toy, nothing more. For some reason though I want to see Faith and Oz interact more. lol. And yea Giles will always favor Willow. But then what happens when they get new watcher and Faith doesn't go bad? I think I prefer the way Faith's story arc played out, just want more that's all.
 
If Angel hadn't come back then there wouldn't have been anything in 'Revelations' to divide the two slayers over- therefore Faith would've remained close to the whole group for longer, but mostly Buffy.

It was Buffy that Faith tried hardest with to be close to (and cared most about even when she chose to be her enemy) and so if she had stayed on the side of right they would've gotten a lot closer. There's really no way that they couldn't.
Faith shares a part of Buffy's life and a perspective that she keeps separate from her friends because Buffy feels that they can't understand all the slayer stuff. So I think eventually (possibly as soon as by the end of S3 start of s4) Buffy would've let Faith in a bit more and they would've become closer friends.

I maintain that Faith would've been a far more interesting romantic interest for Buffy than Riley was, and would've been a big enough change from the Bangel romance. 🙂

In S4 Giles would have had some much needed watcher/slayer bonding time with Faith whilst Buffy was concentrating on college. We saw them become closer anyway (although no doubt the fact that Buffy was always the clear favourite would've created angst/tension) and Faith would've appreciated that guidance.
Maybe Xander and Faith, both not being college-bound, would've had some things to bond over- she may have still have ended up sleeping with Xander at some point if the writers wanted to create tension within the group.

I still feel that Faith wouldn't really have been close to Willow- Willow still would've somewhat resented Buffy and Faith becoming closer friends and Faith's attitude to slaying.
 
Fuffy Baith
Fuffy Baith
I like this.I want this to happen. lol
Samuel Reyes
Samuel Reyes
Xander and Faith spontaneously becoming best friends and hanging out in his basement
There is one problem to this, and that is was Faith ever on the side of good to start of with? I mean I got the impression that she was in with the mayor all along, but that we only found out about it mid-season.

It would have taken a lot for Faith to have been accepted by the Scobbies I think. From the first minute she arrived they played up the angle of her being a rebel, an outsider, and therefore being at odds with Buffy, and in a way someone who represented her darker side. That was the right way for the show to go, but likewise it was compelling to see her turn around in the final season.
 
Mr Trick said:
There is one problem to this, and that is was Faith ever on the side of good to start of with? I mean I got the impression that she was in with the mayor all along, but that we only found out about it mid-season.

It would have taken a lot for Faith to have been accepted by the Scobbies I think. From the first minute she arrived they played up the angle of her being a rebel, an outsider, and therefore being at odds with Buffy, and in a way someone who represented her darker side. That was the right way for the show to go, but likewise it was compelling to see her turn around in the final season.
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That's interesting, not a theory I had heard before. But I disagree. To me it was clear that when Faith got to Sunnydale, she was just a lost child that had a bad life and that wanted to make friends. It's not as simple as her being on the good side or her being on the bad side (I don't think she was strictly on either side at any time until much later on), but she was not with the Mayor when she got to Sunnydale. What clues made you think that? To me, the heartbreak she shows towards Buffy when she does side with the Mayor speaks volume. There's a few times where she could have killed Buffy and she looks at her in the eyes and you can actually see the hurt, and every single time Faith runs away. Faith has always cared for Buffy in my opinion.
 
Blaze said:
To me it was clear that when Faith got to Sunnydale, she was just a lost child that had a bad life and that wanted to make friends. It's not as simple as her being on the good side or her being on the bad side (I don't think she was strictly on either side at any time until much later on), but she was not with the Mayor when she got to Sunnydale.
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Yeah, I'd agree with this. Faith is on the run when she comes to Sunnydale, hiding her fear and guilt about her Watcher being killed right in front of her (and being unable to stop it) and then running away.
She seems sort of content to hang out with Buffy and the Scooby's and help out (watching Wolf Oz, be in the Scooby meetings, training with Buffy etc.). It's only with the arrival of Mrs Post that a wedge is driven between Faith and everybody else. Even after 'Amends' Faith is more distant, and only really maintains her friendship with Buffy and nobody else.

I don't see any evidence that she was Mayor all along (he had Mr. Trick as his right-hand guy) its more that Faith got disillusioned with being 'good' just for the sake of it. She didn't have any ties or family, for a ling time she didn't even have the attentions of a Watcher, she lived in a crappy motel room, she didn't particularly care about helping people in general- she seemed to think that most people are fairly crappy anyway ('no such animal' when Buffy calls people innocent).

All Faith really had was the slaying- she loved it, lived for it- and when she accidentally killed somebody (and still, on some level, enjoyed the act of slaying him) she reacted badly, pushed every away and only then joined up with the Mayor (intially probably for hard cash but later there was twisted familial affection).
 
Blaze said:
That's interesting, not a theory I had heard before. But I disagree. To me it was clear that when Faith got to Sunnydale, she was just a lost child that had a bad life and that wanted to make friends. It's not as simple as her being on the good side or her being on the bad side (I don't think she was strictly on either side at any time until much later on), but she was not with the Mayor when she got to Sunnydale. What clues made you think that? To me, the heartbreak she shows towards Buffy when she does side with the Mayor speaks volume. There's a few times where she could have killed Buffy and she looks at her in the eyes and you can actually see the hurt, and every single time Faith runs away. Faith has always cared for Buffy in my opinion.
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Its true what you say. Guess I always assumed it that why because of her it plays out on the screen. I just find it more credible than it was a well thought out plan than he approached Faith later on. Because how did even know about Faith to approach? Then again I guess the whole lost element of Faith would make her more vulenable to someone like the mayor.
 
Faith staying on the show would change it a lot for sure, especially if she had stayed till the Gift. First of all there might be a lot of interaction with characters, that she did not encounter in season 3, such as Tara, chipped Spike, Dawn (if she stayed till season 5)and many other minor characters. Those interactions might have changed the group dynamics a lot and raise a lot of questions: For example How would Faith react on Parker, or on Spikes crush on Buffy, would she be protective over Dawn like Buffy and partly the other scoobies, would Willows raising self-confidence and coming out not draw Faith and Willow closer etc. Due to this interactions it is difficult to say what position Faith would have withhin the scoobie gang. It surely would be a more complex status that mere muscles though.
Personally, i rather see Faith being Buffys romantic interest, regardless of all the interactions, because of the friendship in season 3 (before she has gone bad) and Faiths care for Buffy like it has been pointed out in this Forum. This in turn would have impacts on Parker (whom would probably have never happened or would have been used and ass-kicked by Faith), Riley (whom also would not have come as close to Buffy as he did without Faith) and Spike (which is the most interesting part as i can see and would either result in a major conflict/ tension or in Spike not being around and Faith being more close and protective towards Dawn instead)
 
thetopher said:
I maintain that Faith would've been a far more interesting romantic interest for Buffy than Riley was, and would've been a big enough change from the Bangel romance. 🙂
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Just out of curiosity, assuming such a thing had happened, do you think that Willow would have stayed straight, even with Oz permanently leaving the cast? Maybe she and Riley would have hit it off.
 
I would think that if Faith hadn't gone bad then Buffy & Faith would have really bonded over killing the Mayor .
Plus i can see Faith going out with Buffy while she in college & maybe even moving in with Joyce both
because they closer & to keep a eye on her for Buffy .😀
 
white avenger said:
Just out of curiosity, assuming such a thing had happened, do you think that Willow would have stayed straight, even with Oz permanently leaving the cast? Maybe she and Riley would have hit it off.
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I could see that.
Alyson and Marc had plenty of chemistry in 'The Initiative' and played well off of each other. Riley is not unlike Oz in that he has a steady sort of personality with his insecurities sort of hidden away.
It might've been fun to see Mr. straight-laced deal with his girlfriend being strongly magically inclined.
 
So how would Tara fit in here then ? Or would you not have her in.
 
If Faith had not turned evil, the Faith/Buffy chemistry would probably be so strong that they would either have them get together, or possibly write Faith off. Or more likely they would have them both get with guys they have less chemistry with 😡.
I picture Faith becoming part of the family, and being relatively close with all of them. However her main tie to the group is of course Buffy. I really think they would have gotten together romantically. I think Willow would have stayed straight. They probably wouldn't have two lesbian couples, and honestly I would have preferred it this way. If they had convinced Seth to stay, that would be completely perfect. Faith/Buffy and Willow/Oz going on double dates, it's so beautiful I'm crying. I think Faith could have helped keep crap together in season 6. She would have been the "cool" mom to Dawn, but she also would have been able to discipline her, something no one else did. I think if Faith was there when Buffy died she would be more devastated than anyone.
I love Faith's arc but I'm wishing this happened 🙁 Oh Faith why'd you have to turn evil and ruin everything?? Angel was on the way out, that was your in and you blew it!! And Buffy had to settle for Riley!
LOOK WHAT YOU DID.
 
I do really love the idea of Faith moving in with Joyce, after Buffy leaves for college. She was such a lost little girl, and I think deep down she craved what Buffy had; a loving mother, a caring watcher/father figure and good friends. If Faith had those things, there's no doubt in my mind she could have reformed and turned her life around.

And she could have been an asset to the team. Two slayers are always better than one.With Giles' support, she could have honed her skills and controlled her urges.

It would have been the ultimate redemption.
 
Monkey Pants said:
If Faith had not turned evil, the Faith/Buffy chemistry would probably be so strong that they would either have them get together, or possibly write Faith off. Or more likely they would have them both get with guys they have less chemistry with 😡.
I picture Faith becoming part of the family, and being relatively close with all of them. However her main tie to the group is of course Buffy. I really think they would have gotten together romantically. I think Willow would have stayed straight. They probably wouldn't have two lesbian couples, and honestly I would have preferred it this way. If they had convinced Seth to stay, that would be completely perfect. Faith/Buffy and Willow/Oz going on double dates, it's so beautiful I'm crying. I think Faith could have helped keep crap together in season 6. She would have been the "cool" mom to Dawn, but she also would have been able to discipline her, something no one else did. I think if Faith was there when Buffy died she would be more devastated than anyone.
I love Faith's arc but I'm wishing this happened 🙁 Oh Faith why'd you have to turn evil and ruin everything?? Angel was on the way out, that was your in and you blew it!! And Buffy had to settle for Riley!
LOOK WHAT YOU DID.
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Well if Seth had stayed then Willow & Buffy like you said would have been able to double date 🙂
And everything else would have been perfect. Xander could have started going out with Tara
& Anya & Spike could have hit it off too . Such a nice sight 😀
 
thetopher said:
If Angel hadn't come back then there wouldn't have been anything in 'Revelations' to divide the two slayers over- therefore Faith would've remained close to the whole group for longer, but mostly Buffy.

It was Buffy that Faith tried hardest with to be close to (and cared most about even when she chose to be her enemy) and so if she had stayed on the side of right they would've gotten a lot closer. There's really no way that they couldn't.
Faith shares a part of Buffy's life and a perspective that she keeps separate from her friends because Buffy feels that they can't understand all the slayer stuff. So I think eventually (possibly as soon as by the end of S3 start of s4) Buffy would've let Faith in a bit more and they would've become closer friends.

I maintain that Faith would've been a far more interesting romantic interest for Buffy than Riley was, and would've been a big enough change from the Bangel romance. 🙂

In S4 Giles would have had some much needed watcher/slayer bonding time with Faith whilst Buffy was concentrating on college. We saw them become closer anyway (although no doubt the fact that Buffy was always the clear favourite would've created angst/tension) and Faith would've appreciated that guidance.
Maybe Xander and Faith, both not being college-bound, would've had some things to bond over- she may have still have ended up sleeping with Xander at some point if the writers wanted to create tension within the group.

I still feel that Faith wouldn't really have been close to Willow- Willow still would've somewhat resented Buffy and Faith becoming closer friends and Faith's attitude to slaying.
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I do really like the ideas here. I can see Faith bonding with the gang, becoming a part of the family...


...buuuut I also think the idea of a dark Slayer and Slayer vs. Slayer is too tantalizing of a story apple not to take a bite out of it. If it would have happened in season 3,4 or 5 (had Faith being invited to stick around) I'm not sure, but I think it was inevitable that she would become Buffy's enemy in one way or another. It might have been more interesting if it had happened in season 4-5 however. Much like I like the idea of Spike going evil in season 7, of Doyle being the big bad of Angel season 5 or the real Cordy being evil in season 4, I fully support the idea of a Faith who is closer to Buffy turning against her in a later season. The emotional impact makes for a more interesting villain than the rather impersonal likes of Adam, the Trio and the First.
 
You can have if you want that Faith & Buffy break up after being going out for a year or two . That would make things better than the Trio too 😀
 
Taake said:
I do really like the ideas here. I can see Faith bonding with the gang, becoming a part of the family...


...buuuut I also think the idea of a dark Slayer and Slayer vs. Slayer is too tantalizing of a story apple not to take a bite out of it. If it would have happened in season 3,4 or 5 (had Faith being invited to stick around) I'm not sure, but I think it was inevitable that she would become Buffy's enemy in one way or another. It might have been more interesting if it had happened in season 4-5 however. Much like I like the idea of Spike going evil in season 7, of Doyle being the big bad of Angel season 5 or the real Cordy being evil in season 4, I fully support the idea of a Faith who is closer to Buffy turning against her in a later season. The emotional impact makes for a more interesting villain than the rather impersonal likes of Adam, the Trio and the First.
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I agree. There would have been more emotional investment in Slayer vs Slayer if they had been good friends (or more!) for several seasons beforehand and something turned them against each other.
 
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