new to this forum. figured id open with my thoughts on season....
Blowback.
In a word. That was season 8. Blowback.
Buffy's seventh season ended on a relatively high note, they had beaten the biggest big bad yet, and had done it in dashing fashion. They changed the world. For seven seasons, that's what Buffy was about. Defying the odds. Ignoring the rules. Ultimately to try to change the world.
And after seven years in small-town Sunnydale... she succeeded.
But that's "the thing about changing the world", Buffy says, "You can't."
And so was season 8. Buffy for perhaps the first time had to deal with the real consequences of bucking convention and railing against how things were supposed to be done.
Season 7 had Buffy go out on a high note. She changed things in the most epic of fashion. Unfortunately the more epic the change... the more epic the blowback.
If Season 7 was ultimately about idealism, empowerment, the idea that you really change the world, then season 8 was about the reality of change, the consequences of it. Season 8 was perhaps more Angel-esque than it was Buffy-esque, and that's one of the reasons I really liked it. Buffy was no longer the big fish in the small pond of Sunnydale. She had changed the entire world and had to face the consequences on the larger scale. No more growing up in Sunnydale. It was time to face the real world. The real crappy sucky world that Angel knows all too well.
Joss's work as it has gone on, has become more reflective of the current state of the world. When season 7 of Buffy was going on it was 2003. Yes we were still fresh out of 9/11, one of the worst tragedies ever. But there was still hope. The country had battled through and we were still riding the wake of the late 90s, very early 2000s where everything was "all good".
Surely we could keep plowing forward, like Buffy did at the end of season 7.
But no. Instead we became embroiled in an unnecessary Iraq war, had the economy turn to shit, and well let's face it the country in general take a turn for the general worse. And it's been that way for a while.
Season 8 was reflective of that. Joss says so in his letter at the end of the last issue - "There is never progress without hateful, reactionary blowback. That's never been more apparent than in today's political scene in America"
Pure idealistic change. Pure hope. It's gone at the moment. It's nothing but bitter realism. As for his decision for Buffy to destroy magick in the world - "No more magic in the sense of not so much entirely convenient magic. I wanted to play with the idea of the world dimming a little bit. Possibly because that's how I feel about it, or at least this country in the last 10 years. And I wanted to do a little bit of a reset, where things seem more back down to earth"
I like this direction. The dimming of things in Buffy's world. Magick is fantasy, it is representative that anything is possible. But not now. At least not for a while in Buffy's world. Welcome back to reality.
Joss says season 8 had a certain weight to it being the bridge between how season 7 ended and how the future (uncertain as it may be) in Fray's time, and I agree. I think he made the connection brilliantly, I think it was a connection that was smart to be made and things are still open ended enough that it's not set in stone that things will turn out the same in future.
Season 8 was a sprawling epic. Joss says he let it get a bit out of hand and that there wasnt as much character focus as there could have been. But I'm okay with it. If I were in Joss's position I would have handled this the same. You've got Buffy for the first time in a limitless world. You want to explore this. You want epic.
I loved the adventure all over the world. As Joss said every season is supposed to be different. He also said that during season 8 he changed his plans for season 9. It seems that he intended season 9 to be epic as well, but then changed his mind. I think this was a good move. While it was awesome for season 8 to be a sprawling epic, that's fine for one season, but the next season should be different. Especially after a season like this, you need a smaller scope, one that is less action and more reflective.
So what was changed in season 8 to make season 9 less epic. Maybe we'll never know exactly. What we do know is that there is an awful lot to deal with in season 9, in the afermath of everything. What will become of Willow? Angel? Angel and Buffy's relationship? Are they done for good? Spike's role? How much will they touch on Giles' death?
Who did Willow mean by there's someone else that she loves and that someone else is someone she will never see again? Is it back to Tara? Sage Vasuka (spelling?).... Oz?
As far as the plot of season 8. I liked it a lot. I have my gripes - killing Giles? Tough to take, but I am glad it was by Angel's hands, it just seemed weirdly fitting. And perhaps it was just time. The mentor always seems to die at some point. I hope we see some change or evolution in Buffy though because of it.
I dont think they fleshed out enough of Angel's role as Twilight, how much direction came from Twilight, how much was the Powers, and there wasnt enough done to defend Angel. I dont apologize for all what Angel did, but I have my own theories and reasons for why he isnt a lost character as many fans now think. But that's a separate thread.
Season 8 was the most epic of battles. They were trying to save the world from it's own timed extinction. From not just a big baddie, but an entire 'new world' trying to destroy and replace the 'old world', our world.
I really enjoyed the explanation of the source of everything, how the world began, how magick comes to be in the world. A piece of a previously existing dimension that had magick, now lodged somewhere deep below the new world it was kept in - it makes "Buffyverse" sense.
The speculation of Willow's future? The parallels and not so parallels of Riley vs. Angel. The return of Xander to glory. The relationship between Faith and Giles. Andrew's continued evolved role in the gang. The return of Oz. Putting Xander and Dawn together which in my opinion makes total sense. Introducing vampires to the entire world and having the world side with the vampires and having the world hate the slayers in a very X-men-esque way. Making Buffy briefly a super hero.
The darkish ending - Buffy and Angel, two of the series biggest characters, both currently somewhat hated and placed in a serious amount of conflict with everyone around them. And Willow another major character's future remains in question.
Paraphrasing Joss, he said ultimately why he changed the direction of season 9 was he realized that Buffy is ultimately at her best when she's more the underdog and less the superhero. Which is true. Still it was cool to see it. But yeh you cant stay there. So now we move on. In a very different set of circumstances.
Buffy's world is once again a little bit smaller, a little bit more human, we're getting back to how it was. We've been to the epic. And now we're back.
I have a few requests for season 9... fleshing out Angel's actions in season 8, characters dealing with Giles death, more of a healing relationship between Buffy and Faith and focus on the Buffy and Faith dynamic in general, oh and more Oz please.
Season 8 closed brilliantly. No magick... maybe. Giles is gone. Faith is guiding Angel. Xander and Dawn are together. Willow and Buffy are on the serious outs. There are no more slayers being called, but still plenty of slayers, in hiding, but nevertheless out there. The gang is broken up. Spike in classic Spike fashion gave his speech of "this is how it is" and showed his support for Buffy, but Buffy just isnt in a place where she's ready for praise.
You see she's dealing with a very powerful realization. That no matter how much power you have, now matter how big a change in the world you think you've made. There almost always is an equal blowback designed to reverse that change. And Buffy now stands on the other side of that blowback. She made it through.
But it wasnt pretty. How could it be? When you change the very fundamental nature of the world there's going to be major consequences. When you have to survive another entire world attacking your world, prolongue your world past its extinction date, you're going to come out of that with more than minor scrapes.
So that huge change she created. Isnt as huge. There was the end of season 7's progress and the push back in season 8. Take out your measuring tape. Are we still ahead? Yes. Not by that much, but we are.
And that was the ultimately message of season 8. That change isn't easy, not even close. But if you persevere, change is still possible. And as we gather from Buffy - as long as that rock is a little further ahead than when you started, then that's progress. And if you've made a little progress, then pick up the pieces after the battle and keep moving, because there is still hope.
It's ironic that Buffy and Angel's relationship could be done for good when perhaps now she understands his world better than ever. And perhaps it's no coincidence that in a season where Angel (not Angelus) played the Big Bad (kinda), that the message and lessons Buffy learned were more "Angel-esque" than anything before. And it's no coincidence that Buffy's final words in response to everything that she's just been through are the same words once echoed by Angel.
No matter how much we push that damn boulder it's going to keep sliding back. We can never win. But if we just keep pushing back, then we'll never lose either. So... in the words of Angel... and Buffy...
Let's go to work.
Blowback.
In a word. That was season 8. Blowback.
Buffy's seventh season ended on a relatively high note, they had beaten the biggest big bad yet, and had done it in dashing fashion. They changed the world. For seven seasons, that's what Buffy was about. Defying the odds. Ignoring the rules. Ultimately to try to change the world.
And after seven years in small-town Sunnydale... she succeeded.
But that's "the thing about changing the world", Buffy says, "You can't."
And so was season 8. Buffy for perhaps the first time had to deal with the real consequences of bucking convention and railing against how things were supposed to be done.
Season 7 had Buffy go out on a high note. She changed things in the most epic of fashion. Unfortunately the more epic the change... the more epic the blowback.
If Season 7 was ultimately about idealism, empowerment, the idea that you really change the world, then season 8 was about the reality of change, the consequences of it. Season 8 was perhaps more Angel-esque than it was Buffy-esque, and that's one of the reasons I really liked it. Buffy was no longer the big fish in the small pond of Sunnydale. She had changed the entire world and had to face the consequences on the larger scale. No more growing up in Sunnydale. It was time to face the real world. The real crappy sucky world that Angel knows all too well.
Joss's work as it has gone on, has become more reflective of the current state of the world. When season 7 of Buffy was going on it was 2003. Yes we were still fresh out of 9/11, one of the worst tragedies ever. But there was still hope. The country had battled through and we were still riding the wake of the late 90s, very early 2000s where everything was "all good".
Surely we could keep plowing forward, like Buffy did at the end of season 7.
But no. Instead we became embroiled in an unnecessary Iraq war, had the economy turn to shit, and well let's face it the country in general take a turn for the general worse. And it's been that way for a while.
Season 8 was reflective of that. Joss says so in his letter at the end of the last issue - "There is never progress without hateful, reactionary blowback. That's never been more apparent than in today's political scene in America"
Pure idealistic change. Pure hope. It's gone at the moment. It's nothing but bitter realism. As for his decision for Buffy to destroy magick in the world - "No more magic in the sense of not so much entirely convenient magic. I wanted to play with the idea of the world dimming a little bit. Possibly because that's how I feel about it, or at least this country in the last 10 years. And I wanted to do a little bit of a reset, where things seem more back down to earth"
I like this direction. The dimming of things in Buffy's world. Magick is fantasy, it is representative that anything is possible. But not now. At least not for a while in Buffy's world. Welcome back to reality.
Joss says season 8 had a certain weight to it being the bridge between how season 7 ended and how the future (uncertain as it may be) in Fray's time, and I agree. I think he made the connection brilliantly, I think it was a connection that was smart to be made and things are still open ended enough that it's not set in stone that things will turn out the same in future.
Season 8 was a sprawling epic. Joss says he let it get a bit out of hand and that there wasnt as much character focus as there could have been. But I'm okay with it. If I were in Joss's position I would have handled this the same. You've got Buffy for the first time in a limitless world. You want to explore this. You want epic.
I loved the adventure all over the world. As Joss said every season is supposed to be different. He also said that during season 8 he changed his plans for season 9. It seems that he intended season 9 to be epic as well, but then changed his mind. I think this was a good move. While it was awesome for season 8 to be a sprawling epic, that's fine for one season, but the next season should be different. Especially after a season like this, you need a smaller scope, one that is less action and more reflective.
So what was changed in season 8 to make season 9 less epic. Maybe we'll never know exactly. What we do know is that there is an awful lot to deal with in season 9, in the afermath of everything. What will become of Willow? Angel? Angel and Buffy's relationship? Are they done for good? Spike's role? How much will they touch on Giles' death?
Who did Willow mean by there's someone else that she loves and that someone else is someone she will never see again? Is it back to Tara? Sage Vasuka (spelling?).... Oz?
As far as the plot of season 8. I liked it a lot. I have my gripes - killing Giles? Tough to take, but I am glad it was by Angel's hands, it just seemed weirdly fitting. And perhaps it was just time. The mentor always seems to die at some point. I hope we see some change or evolution in Buffy though because of it.
I dont think they fleshed out enough of Angel's role as Twilight, how much direction came from Twilight, how much was the Powers, and there wasnt enough done to defend Angel. I dont apologize for all what Angel did, but I have my own theories and reasons for why he isnt a lost character as many fans now think. But that's a separate thread.
Season 8 was the most epic of battles. They were trying to save the world from it's own timed extinction. From not just a big baddie, but an entire 'new world' trying to destroy and replace the 'old world', our world.
I really enjoyed the explanation of the source of everything, how the world began, how magick comes to be in the world. A piece of a previously existing dimension that had magick, now lodged somewhere deep below the new world it was kept in - it makes "Buffyverse" sense.
The speculation of Willow's future? The parallels and not so parallels of Riley vs. Angel. The return of Xander to glory. The relationship between Faith and Giles. Andrew's continued evolved role in the gang. The return of Oz. Putting Xander and Dawn together which in my opinion makes total sense. Introducing vampires to the entire world and having the world side with the vampires and having the world hate the slayers in a very X-men-esque way. Making Buffy briefly a super hero.
The darkish ending - Buffy and Angel, two of the series biggest characters, both currently somewhat hated and placed in a serious amount of conflict with everyone around them. And Willow another major character's future remains in question.
Paraphrasing Joss, he said ultimately why he changed the direction of season 9 was he realized that Buffy is ultimately at her best when she's more the underdog and less the superhero. Which is true. Still it was cool to see it. But yeh you cant stay there. So now we move on. In a very different set of circumstances.
Buffy's world is once again a little bit smaller, a little bit more human, we're getting back to how it was. We've been to the epic. And now we're back.
I have a few requests for season 9... fleshing out Angel's actions in season 8, characters dealing with Giles death, more of a healing relationship between Buffy and Faith and focus on the Buffy and Faith dynamic in general, oh and more Oz please.
Season 8 closed brilliantly. No magick... maybe. Giles is gone. Faith is guiding Angel. Xander and Dawn are together. Willow and Buffy are on the serious outs. There are no more slayers being called, but still plenty of slayers, in hiding, but nevertheless out there. The gang is broken up. Spike in classic Spike fashion gave his speech of "this is how it is" and showed his support for Buffy, but Buffy just isnt in a place where she's ready for praise.
You see she's dealing with a very powerful realization. That no matter how much power you have, now matter how big a change in the world you think you've made. There almost always is an equal blowback designed to reverse that change. And Buffy now stands on the other side of that blowback. She made it through.
But it wasnt pretty. How could it be? When you change the very fundamental nature of the world there's going to be major consequences. When you have to survive another entire world attacking your world, prolongue your world past its extinction date, you're going to come out of that with more than minor scrapes.
So that huge change she created. Isnt as huge. There was the end of season 7's progress and the push back in season 8. Take out your measuring tape. Are we still ahead? Yes. Not by that much, but we are.
And that was the ultimately message of season 8. That change isn't easy, not even close. But if you persevere, change is still possible. And as we gather from Buffy - as long as that rock is a little further ahead than when you started, then that's progress. And if you've made a little progress, then pick up the pieces after the battle and keep moving, because there is still hope.
It's ironic that Buffy and Angel's relationship could be done for good when perhaps now she understands his world better than ever. And perhaps it's no coincidence that in a season where Angel (not Angelus) played the Big Bad (kinda), that the message and lessons Buffy learned were more "Angel-esque" than anything before. And it's no coincidence that Buffy's final words in response to everything that she's just been through are the same words once echoed by Angel.
No matter how much we push that damn boulder it's going to keep sliding back. We can never win. But if we just keep pushing back, then we'll never lose either. So... in the words of Angel... and Buffy...
Let's go to work.
