"Hello, gay now!"

[BuffyElevated]

This line always bothered me a little bit... So Willow decided after falling for 1 girl that she was gay? How did she know she wasn't bi? She did date Oz for two years, and she seemed reasonably confused when he showed back up in "New Moon Rising". It always bugged me a little bit that the writers just decided to label her as a lesbian after putting her in a single homosexual relationship. It's not that I don't like Tara or that I don't want Willow to be gay, either... I'm bisexual myself, so I have no problem with same sex couples. However I always felt it would be a little more believable if at some point there was another male love interest introduced, perhaps in Season 7, and Willow decided then that she was a lesbian. It always felt so weird that after 1 relationship she proclaimed herself to be gay. Thoughts?

 

[LoveLoveLovix]

I don't know... on one hand, I get that, and it makes sense... on the other hand, when I discovered my own homosexuality it was like opening a door, for lack of better metaphor. I thought I liked guys. Guys were cute. My friends liked guys. Guys could be nice. Wasn't all there was to crushing? So I "liked" quite a few guys.

And then came my first girl crush, which was more on the OHMIGOSH scale. It wasn't like I saw all girls differently... just the one... but after I got over her, I could never really think about guys the same way again. I couldn't really have crushes on them, because I didn't feel the same thing I felt for the girl, and while I denied it at first, I kinda knew I really liked girls. And I did A LOT to force myself not to, from denial to "bisexual. I am ONLY bisexual. I can still find a guy amazing enough to date me."

Anyway... point is, maybe Oz was just the best Willow could find, someone she truly thought she felt for in a sexy way like she was supposed to. And then Tara came along and Willow realized, "No. THIS is what it's supposed to be." In my opinion, it CAN only take one relationship. On a TV show, it may not seem believable, but it happens in real life. Maybe Willow is just less deny-y.

 

[Pik]

Yeah, that bugged me too. I mean you can't have a homosexual relationship/experience after being in an active heterosexual relationship for a period of time and suddenly say you don't like the opposite sex anymore. It always bothered me that the writers just assumed that Willow would gay after only having one lesbian relationship. That's just not how it works.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

I've always been bothered a bit by this as well. It seemed as though the decision to make her completely gay after we saw her very obvious physical attraction to two men was to say that it could only be one or the other. But I never thought about it too much because I don't have any personal experience with this, and in the end I just come to the conclusion that I'm missing something. That it is possible to completely experience a change in sexuality.

[MENTION=11012]LoveLoveLovix[/MENTION], thanks for explaining things based on your own experience. That makes a lot of sense to me. The only thing I don't understand is that, from where I sat, there seemed to be so much physical chemistry between Willow and Oz, and Willow and Xander. Like, it didn't seem to be just about that giddy, crush-y feeling for Willow, when it came to those two. She seemed to be head over heels, physically attracted to them, the exact same way in which she was attracted to Tara. So... I dunno.

The other confusing thing is Willow's use of the word "now." As if to say that she wasn't before, taking away from the theory that she was without realizing it. Are we supposed to assume that she just changed, overnight? Am I reading too much into that?

 

[BuffyElevated]

[MENTION=11012]LoveLoveLovix[/MENTION] I totally understand what you're saying. I have friends who have said the same thing but for me, I just felt like it was too rushed to just all of a sudden call Willow gay. We didn't see her dealing with her feelings about it enough, IMO.

 

[NY State of Mind]

I think shes Bi even if she doesn't say it....she first loved guys and obviously loved girls too and Vamp Willow showed interest in both sex in my mind...also in Crush she fell for the dude with the jacket. I honestly see her as Bi, but her best mate was a female aka Tara

 

[FlowerPower]

Someone once wrote that Willow's personal journey to discover that she was attracted to women was so beautifully and completely written while Willow's personal journey to discover that she was no longer attracted to guys was atrociously and emptily written. I definitely agree with that.

I lean towards bi because no way is what Willow felt for Oz and Xander not real in every sense of the word. It was. However, if Willow feels more comfortable identifying as a lesbian because the love of her life was Tara or she likes the security in having such a clearly defined label that's totally her business. It's just that I really object to any interpretation that considers Oz and Xander as less- whether it's dismissing them as a childhood thing easily gotten over like training wheels on a bike or Willow loving them because she need to feel normal or any of those fanwanks that aren't what I saw on the screen.

 

[zobothehobo]

I've said this very many times on this board... but coming out is a process... and it's different for everyone. Some fall for a member of the same sex and then just know. Some spend years trying to figure it out. Some spend a long time trying to figure out the difference between bi and gay. And some people just know where they fit. If Willow knew where she fit, then she knew where she fit.

I mean you can't have a homosexual relationship/experience after being in an active heterosexual relationship for a period of time and suddenly say you don't like the opposite sex anymore.

Honestly, I had to take a second to figure out if you were being sarcastic here... And when I realized you weren't, I got a tad offended. Since then, the offense has worn off to annoyance... but I felt like I should say something. You can't say what someone can or can't do in terms of realizing their sexuality. If someone has a homosexual relationship/experience after being in an active heterosexual relationship for a period of time and they feel they don't like the opposite sex anymore... they have every right to say that. And you have no right to say that what they say isn't valid because they don't have their "gay street cred" as Willow put it.

As far as I'm concerned, when dealing with issues of sexuality... because it is a lot more fluid than society and everyone in it is really comfortable with... you have to listen to what the person says. I'm gay. There are still people within my family who believe I'm bi. But I don't say that... and that's why it's not ok for them to say it. Back when I said I was bi, my former best friend called me gay all the time. But I didn't say that... and that's why it was not ok for him to say it. Willow said she was gay. And that's what we all have to respect.

 

[arabella]

It never bothered me because it is a self-identification statement. She, regardless of her past experiences with men, self-identifies as "gay" at this point in her life. If she has decided and declared that she is now only interested in women, then so be it. I don't think that her past experiences with men make her bisexual, as many individuals (especially prior to homosexuality gaining acceptance) have heterosexual relationships, even to the point of marriage before being with a single man or woman that helps them realize they are homosexual. I don't know if that even makes any sense to anyone but me though :/

 

[BuffyElevated]

I just felt it was all so rushed and crazy. Like all of a sudden she decides she's "gay now". I guess that's why I have issues 'cause I feel like there was no real transition period. All my friends who are gay all had some kind of transition where they thought out their feelings and their "label". Hell, it took me a long time to realize I was truly bisexual and not just going through an experimenting phase or something. I feel like it would have made a lot more sense if Willow had done that, too.

 

[badwolf]

Yeah I didn't quite understand this much either. I too thought she was more bi than anything else. When I was watching those Tara/Willow scenes (before Willow proclaimed her orientation) I didn't even realise what was happening between the two, I merely thought she had just gotten real close to Tara, as in friendship. It was only when Willow said it, that I realised it was so.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Yeah I didn't quite understand this much either. I too thought she was more bi than anything else. When I was watching those Tara/Willow scenes (before Willow proclaimed her orientation) I didn't even realise what was happening between the two, I merely thought she had just gotten real close to Tara, as in friendship. It was only when Willow said it, that I realised it was so.

Well I definitely recognized the chemistry right away. I watched the first episode where they got together and talked and the way Amber played it seemed very obvious to me that she was playing Tara with a crush on Willow. I was surprised that Willow was the one to enter into a lesbian relationship, but I was sure that if Oz ever came back she'd go back to him. I was shocked when he came back in "New Moon Rising" and she chose to stay with Tara.

 

[InsaneMystic]

I just felt it was all so rushed and crazy. Like all of a sudden she decides she's "gay now". I guess that's why I have issues 'cause I feel like there was no real transition period. All my friends who are gay all had some kind of transition where they thought out their feelings and their "label". Hell, it took me a long time to realize I was truly bisexual and not just going through an experimenting phase or something. I feel like it would have made a lot more sense if Willow had done that, too.

Well, to be fair, Triangle is about a full year since Willow started dating Tara. And Willow is a very introverted person, so that's a year of possibility to think about it, without necessarily letting people in on that thought process. That's something I, temperament-wise, can relate to well... and it does seem believable for me.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

Over the years, I came to the conclusion that everybody is bi, and everybody is not. A little confusing. I think we're all attracted in a way to people from both sexes. It's like, you can be attracted to a particular person who's from the opposite sex, while at the same time you can be not attracted to a different person who's from the opposite sex (notice that both I said about the opposite sex). Even if you're not gay, there are people from the opposite sex that you're not attracted to, simply because you don't find them attractive. The other way around is currect as well. If you're gay, you'll fnd some people from your own sex that you're attracted to, and some that you're not.

Sorry if I've confused you. My bottom line is, we're attracted to people, in general. We're usually not attracted sexually to animals, plants or objects. You can find people who are attractive to you from both sexes, doesn't matter if you're homosexual or not.

As for Willow, I've always wondered about it too. I think she was attracted to Oz, I really do. And clearly she was attracted to Tara, Kennedy and even Xander, and even other guys we've seen on the show, before she "turned" gay. We even see Buffy sleeps with another girl in season 8. Does it mean she's a lesbian? Willow slept with Oz. Does it mean she's not a lesbian?

 

[Ianigsy]

I think it's entirely possible that if Buffy had never entered their lives, Willow and Xander would eventually have ended up together and maybe Willow might never have been entirely comfortable in her identity, but that would have been compensated for by being with the one person who knew her best and would do anything for her.

Rightly or wrongly, I also get the impression that at least some bisexual people will identify as gay if they happen to be currently in a relationship with somebody of the same sex- I suppose that if you identify yourself as bisexual in front of your gay partner, you're sending out the message that you might be open to a straight relationship as well.

 

[FlowerPower]

I think it's entirely possible that if Buffy had never entered their lives, Willow and Xander would eventually have ended up together and maybe Willow might never have been entirely comfortable in her identity, but that would have been compensated for by being with the one person who knew her best and would do anything for her.

Rightly or wrongly, I also get the impression that at least some bisexual people will identify as gay if they happen to be currently in a relationship with somebody of the same sex- I suppose that if you identify yourself as bisexual in front of your gay partner, you're sending out the message that you might be open to a straight relationship as well.

I agree with your second paragraph. Willow was SO hung up on Tara while they were together and then she dived into a relationship with Kennedy. Interestingly, Willow starts talking more ambiguously about her sexuality before heading into a relationship with Kennedy. ("It wasn't *women*. It was a woman.")

I'm not so sure that Willow would have ended up with Xander if they stayed human. Definitely we see it happened when they were vampires and from where I was sitting, Vamp Willow looked very very VERY comfortable with her bisexuality. Vamp Willow seemed to ricochet between Xander, Angel, Sandy, Cordelia and herself quite easily. Vamp Willow seemed more confident in herself as a sexual being than Real Willow ever did from S1-9.

If Willow and Xander stayed human and the hellmouth didn't trouble them, it's hard to say. My guess is that Willow would have stayed frozen in her Welcome to the Hellmouth level of shyness and shelteredness for some time. I don't know if something in high school could have made Willow come out of her shell a little- maybe Oz finding her and romancing her considering that he was into Eskimo!Willow. Maybe it wouldn't have happened because Oz did seem attracted to a level of confidence and uniqueness that S2 Willow acquired from her Buffy and hellmouth spurred character development over S1 and half of S2. To be sure, if Willow stayed frozen in her S1 and even S2 persona, Xander wouldn't have been romantically interested in her.

However at the end of the day, Willow would have been accepted and gone off to a top university and for many people, the thrill of being at a university with its spurty knowledge matures them and forces them to be comfortable in themselves beyond parents' rules or old best friends. There, she could have dated non-Tara girls.

 

[Willow My Love]

That always bothered me too. The first person I actually fell in love with was female, but I'm not a lesbian... That never really crossed my mind.

I think it's more that she identified more with being a lesbian, rather than being bi. I think she fell so hard for Tara that she knew there'd never be anyone else, so she could call herself a lesbian. (Were it not for Tara's death, there wouldn't have been anyone else.)

And there were some hopefuls at the Bronze with Amy in s6, but Willow was totally disinterested.

 

[Scarlett Blade]

I think--like many people have stated--that at that time in her life, she felt like she was a lesbian. She felt more attracted to girls than boys, and that settled it for her. I feel kind of the same way about homosexuality; like you are a homosexual if you are more attracted to the same sex than the opposite sex. I feel like actually being a true bisexual is feeling exactly the same attraction to both sexes. To be gay, you don't actually have to feel no attraction whatsoever to the opposite sex, it's more like you prefer to be with the same sex. And that seems to be where Willow was coming from. It seemed like she definitely felt more attraction to Tara or Kennedy than Oz or Xander, so for her that made her gay. And it might not be the same for everyone, but it obviously was to her. Why would she say something if she didn't mean it?

 

[BuffyElevated]

I think it's more that she identified more with being a lesbian, rather than being bi. I think she fell so hard for Tara that she knew there'd never be anyone else, so she could call herself a lesbian. (Were it not for Tara's death, there wouldn't have been anyone else.)

I think you're probably right about this. I think Willow was so sure that she would be with Tara forever, she never truly considered being with anyone else, let alone men again. If that were me, I'd probably consider myself a lesbian as well.

 

[Ripper666]

I was confused there too! I think that the writters didn't knew in season1 that Willow will turn gay in season 4. They decided this later. You firstly see the first signs when the Willowvampire arrives and Willow says that she thinks that her Willow-vamp is gay. So later the writters decided that to make the stroy more intersting!