Hell's Bells: Who Was The Real Victim?

[sosa lola]

This storyline has three characters going through three stages:

Stewart Burns

- a womanizer
- gets punished by being turned into a demon and tortured in a hell dimension
- comes back for revenge, to ruin the life of the vengeance demon who ruined his.

Xander Harris

- abusive childhood
- having fears and doubts about marriage and keeping them to himself
- having his mind and body violated by a demon with visions of his worst nightmare


Anya Jenkins

- being cheated on by her boyfriend
- wishing her boyfriend into a troll, becoming a vengeance demon, and then ruining lives of billions of men throughout the centuries
- being punished by one of her victims, with the love of her life leaving her at the altar on her happiest day



How the three of them would avoid this mess?

Stewart Burns

- Don't mistreat women

Xander Harris

- Talk about your fears and concerns with your fiancée and friends.

Anya Jenkins

- Don't become a vengeance demon



The victimhood of those three:

Stewart Burns

- Being turned into a demon, even though it was too extreme and undeserved, was punishment enough. There was no need to send the man to a hell dimension to be trapped and tortured for years.

Xander Harris

- Xander was the innocent caught between the wrath of a punished man and the woman who punished him. He was used and violated to punish Anya for her past crimes.

Anya Jenkins

- For the last few years, Anya became Xander's loving and faithful girlfriend, was one of the good guys, helped saving the world, had a job, and was getting accustomed to being human. She did not deserve the humiliation of being jilted at the altar in front of her friends and family.




After Stage Number Three:

Stewart Burns

- It wasn't enough he hurt and humiliated Anya by having the groom running away, he wanted to kill her as well.

Xander Harris

- Running away from the wedding, leaving the whole mess to his bride and friends to clean.

Anya Jenkins

- Goes back to being a vengeance demon and right now she's planning on hurting and murdering Xander by wishing he was never born.



Was It Understandable?

Stewart Burns

- Watching Anya cry was satisfying, but didn't compare to what he was put through. It didn't compare to years of being tortured in a hell dimension, to being separated forever from his family, to being doomed to live a life of a demon. Anya needed to die for what she'd done to him.

Xander Harris

- "That's it? That's all you did?" Anya had belittled nineteen years of emotional and possibly physical abuse. It's not easy growing with alcoholic parents who hated each other, getting too wasted to the point of trying to sell their child and not recognizing his voice on the phone. Forcing the child to sleep outside on Christmas, dreaming about his father ripping his heart out of his body. Xander couldn't go through this again, he couldn't let Anya live through this, and he couldn't be expected to get over hours of believing he was going to grow up to be an abusive, murderous husband in twenty minutes.

Anya Jenkins

- She was left at the altar. She had dedicated her life to loving Xander, she learnt to trust men again through Xander, and now he just proved he was just like the other men she had been summoned by scorned women to punish. Xander was her everything, and now she lost him, she had nothing left but to return to what she knew best: being a vengeance demon.




Final Notes:

I love this episode "“ minus Xander's parents. I love the complicated story of the three perpetrators/ victims. If I'm going to choose which one was the real victim, I'd probably go with Xander. I'm biased, but I find Xander's crime the least horrifying, not to mention that he was literally caught between a decades' conflict between Anya and Stewart. I also believe his comment in the beginning of the episode, "Nothing on earth can stop this wedding," was sincere and that he was going to marry Anya despite the doubts.

 

[david4wt]

I don't think that you can punish someone for what he did when he was another person. And I don't believe in vengeance either, since violence just brings other violence. It's like death penalty, it makes no sense to me. Anya was not Anyanka anymore. She was a human, not a soulless killer.

 

[sosa lola]

I agree. I can understand where Stewart stood, what he went through was not easy at all. Resentment and hate grew inside him as years passed, but it doesn't make what he did at the wedding okay.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

Good list.

Well, I don't really blame Anya. Because she just did her job. She wasn't the one who wished him to become a demon. She just fulfilled someone's wish. And since Anyanka, being a demon, you can't really blame her for not caring very much what happens to a human being. Anya wasn't the one who ruined Stewart's life, but the person who wished it for him was. But I also think it was Stewart's fault. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Overall, I don't think Stewart had much to do with ruining Anya and Xander's relationship. Their wedding yes. But the problems between Xander and Anya were there even before this happened.

 

[sosa lola]

I do blame Anya for becoming a vengeance demon in the first place. It was her choice to be a demon and ruin people's lives. Stewart may have been a jerk, but every human being deserves a second chance, not to mention, he didn't kill anyone. I draw the line on killing.

Anya, knew what the job entitled when she became a vengeance demon. She should know better.

I think the problems between Xander and Anya can be solved if Xander talked about his fears. I think his fears are valid because I can see seeds of his father in him and those seeds were at full force in Entropy when he was about to kill Spike and slut-shamed Anya, in that episode he was his father.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

I do blame Anya for becoming a vengeance demon in the first place. It was her choice to be a demon and ruin people's lives. Stewart may have been a jerk, but every human being deserves a second chance, not to mention, he didn't kill anyone. I draw the line on killing.

Anya, knew what the job entitled when she became a vengeance demon. She should know better.

I think the problems between Xander and Anya can be solved if Xander talked about his fears. I think his fears are valid because I can see seeds of his father in him and those seeds were at full force in Entropy when he was about to kill Spike and slut-shamed Anya, in that episode he was his father.

I agree. I just think you cannot blame a demon after they're already a demon.

 

[sosa lola]

I agree. I just think you cannot blame a demon after they're already a demon.

Did Anya have a soul as a demon? She seemed to have a lot of humanity when she became a demon again and it shows in late S6 and early S7.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

Did Anya have a soul as a demon? She seemed to have a lot of humanity when she became a demon again and it shows in late S6 and early S7.

But at the time when she turned Stewart into a demon, she was an evil demon. I'm not talking about before or after.

 

[sosa lola]

But at the time when she turned Stewart into a demon, she was an evil demon. I'm not talking about before or after.

My point is if she had a soul she would have the conscious to help her distinguish between right and wrong. I'd give Anya the credit of not twisting the wishes to her liking like her friend Halifrek, though.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

My point is if she had a soul she would have the conscious to help her distinguish between right and wrong. I'd give Anya the credit of not twisting the wishes to her liking like her friend Halifrek, though.

Well, she didn't have a soul. Does it say somewhere that vengence demons have souls?
Even if they have souls, demons are evil. Anya was evil. Then how could you blame someone evil for doing something evil? An evil being wouldn't do something good. She wasn't even living in the people world, with all the (stupid) human rules and the other things she doesn't understand or like, even as a human.

 

[dexeded]

The real victim? Gonna have to say Anya here. I mean, Stewart was the victim thousands of years ago when he was cursed by Anyanka. Xander was the victim in his childhood and being caught up in the backlash of Anya's demon days. But in Hell's Bells itself, Anya was the victim, I think.

But I think the more pertinent question would be of blame. I think Stewart has the least blame--his only crime was vengeance against a reformed Anya, but that's not nearly enough for Anyanka's crimes. Anya's massacres were never taken seriously before, but obviously her past crimes have the most weight and are the most heinous. But since they'd never been an issue with Xander in the first place... Xander's faults were rushing into things, being emotionally immature, and eventually breaking off the wedding. He had his reasons, deeply-rooted insecurities as they were, and he did what he thought was right. I personally think they would've worked out. Xander wouldn't have turned out like his dad. But what matters is what Xander thinks, and he thought he would, and it's not like he liked leaving her at the altar. So... back to square one. Objectively, I can't pin it down, but probably Anya since she got what was coming. (Well, she got off a lot more easy, but still.) Personally, with the show's Anya-no-blame-for-crimes-as-she-is-merely-comic-relief glasses on that they donned for majority of her run, I feel horrible for a woman scorned, so Xander, even though he had his reasons.

 

[Icarium]

Well, I don't really blame Anya. Because she just did her job. She wasn't the one who wished him to become a demon. She just fulfilled someone's wish. And since Anyanka, being a demon, you can't really blame her for not caring very much what happens to a human being. Anya wasn't the one who ruined Stewart's life, but the person who wished it for him was.

Yeah, saying "I wish [something horrible happened to that person]" is just as bad as actually granting that wish. Oh, wait, it's not. The whole point of being a vengeance demon is tricking people into making those wishes and if the wisher regrets it after that - all the better. Just doing her job is never a good excuse when one enjoys their job very much and said job consists of ruining people's lives for fun and profit.

It's like death penalty, it makes no sense to me. Anya was not Anyanka anymore. She was a human, not a soulless killer.

Anyanka was not soulless - at least not in the sense of vampires being soulless. We see Anya very much enjoying telling the tales of her days of murder and wishing she could become a demon again and we see Anyanka 2.0 exhibiting more pangs of regret than human Anya. Personally I think she was a sociopath all along and being a demon didn't change her one bit. That's why D'Hoffryn recruits angry women who are hell bent on revenge - if he could just make them lose their souls he wouldn't bother convincing them to sign up to become demons, he would have turned them like vampires do with some of their victims.

But the meta reason is that the show had to pretend Anya's crimes were no big deal because otherwise she couldn't have joined the Scooby gang. If one looks at her as a character, rather than comic relief, the way people behave towards her becomes quite inexplicable - "Oh, you murdered thousands? Who cares, you are one of us now."

 

[FlowerPower]

Yeah, saying "I wish [something horrible happened to that person]" is just as bad as actually granting that wish. Oh, wait, it's not. The whole point of being a vengeance demon is tricking people into making those wishes and if the wisher regrets it after that - all the better. Just doing her job is never a good excuse when one enjoys their job very much and said job consists of ruining people's lives for fun and profit.

We don't know if Stewart Burns's spurned lady summoned Anyanka. Apparently, that happens. However even then, I sort of think that the summoner still bears less responsibility because they're just so much less experienced in how awful and permanent these wishes are and usually taken when they're emotionally vulnerable as opposed to Anyanka or Hallie who were feeling fine.

And I find it hilarious that Anya self-righteously argues that she was working for the women who were betrayed when in the two wishes that we see her results, Cordelia died in a few hours in the Wishverse and that girl in Selfless who was hurt by the frat guys would have died from that big lethal spider if Willow didn't get there in time.

Anyanka was not soulless - at least not in the sense of vampires being soulless. We see Anya very much enjoying telling the tales of her days of murder and wishing she could become a demon again and we see Anyanka 2.0 exhibiting more pangs of regret than human Anya. Personally I think she was a sociopath all along and being a demon didn't change her one bit. That's why D'Hoffryn recruits angry women who are hell bent on revenge - if he could just make them lose their souls he wouldn't bother convincing them to sign up to become demons, he would have turned them like vampires do with some of their victims.

Exactly. Even if some fanwanked that Anya was soulless while doing the crimes but wanted to put a happy face on her crimes or that her soul is good enough to not have gone through doing the crimes but not good enough to be troubled with guilt over them, Anyanka 2.0 makes it plain that she has a soul. A soul to be Ms. Soft-Serve Vengeance and eventually realize that making a frat house look like a Quentin Tarantino set is kinda mean...

 

[Sweet J]

We don't know if Stewart Burns's spurned lady summoned Anyanka. Apparently, that happens. However even then, I sort of think that the summoner still bears less responsibility because they're just so much less experienced in how awful and permanent these wishes are and usually taken when they're emotionally vulnerable as opposed to Anyanka or Hallie who were feeling fine.

And I find it hilarious that Anya self-righteously argues that she was working for the women who were betrayed when in the two wishes that we see her results, Cordelia died in a few hours in the Wishverse and that girl in Selfless who was hurt by the frat guys would have died from that big lethal spider if Willow didn't get there in time.



Exactly. Even if some fanwanked that Anya was soulless while doing the crimes but wanted to put a happy face on her crimes or that her soul is good enough to not have gone through doing the crimes but not good enough to be troubled with guilt over them, Anyanka 2.0 makes it plain that she has a soul. A soul to be Ms. Soft-Serve Vengeance and eventually realize that making a frat house look like a Quentin Tarantino set is kinda mean...

Anya and the questionable morality surrounding her sticks out like a sore thumb in BtVS. The Anya had a soul, or was soulless, debate that is going on in another thread further shows up the inconsistency in the moral message of the show.

I can never understand the position of fans who blame Xander, just imagine the roles were reversed and Xander was the vengeance demon and Anya was the mortal who saw all the visions of their disasterous married life together etc. I doubt fans would be having this debate then, as everyone would be understanding and sympathetic towards Anya's character, and support her running away in this role reversal.

So why then is there animosity towards Xander in Hell's bells?

 

[SlayerFest]

I do blame Anya for becoming a vengeance demon in the first place. It was her choice to be a demon and ruin people's lives. Stewart may have been a jerk, but every human being deserves a second chance, not to mention, he didn't kill anyone. I draw the line on killing.

Anya, knew what the job entitled when she became a vengeance demon. She should know better.

I think the problems between Xander and Anya can be solved if Xander talked about his fears. I think his fears are valid because I can see seeds of his father in him and those seeds were at full force in Entropy when he was about to kill Spike and slut-shamed Anya, in that episode he was his father.

Well...she wouldn't have met Xander if she hadn't become a vengeance demon so I feel like that's kind of irrelevant. I mean obviously Stewart wouldn't have been there to show Xander the visions because in this "Anya was never a vengeance demon" scenario...Xander wouldn't even know her haha...or am I misunderstanding you?

 

[Chosen Enemy]

Like I was trying to point out, in short, doesn't matter if she had a soul or not. If someone is evil, do you expect them to do good things? Anya was evil. She did evil things. Are you blaming evil for doing evil things?

Also, not all souless demons are evil, and not all souled demons are good. And Whistler's case proves it. He didn't have a soul, but was a good demon. Anya had a soul, but she was an evil demon. Nothing to do with each other.

The fact that Xander ignored all the evil things, doesn't mean she wasn't really evil once.

 

[Icarium]

Anya was evil. She did evil things. Are you blaming evil for doing evil things?

Well, yes. Why shouldn't I? She showed that she could refrain from doing evil while being a demon in S7, so the "She had no choice, she was evil by nature" excuse is simply not true. And even if it were true, I would still blame her for choosing to become a demon, knowing full well what that meant.

And I find it hilarious that Anya self-righteously argues that she was working for the women who were betrayed when in the two wishes that we see her results, Cordelia died in a few hours in the Wishverse and that girl in Selfless who was hurt by the frat guys would have died from that big lethal spider if Willow didn't get there in time.

Don't forget Halfrek, whose idea of "justice" was to doom everyone at Buffy's birthday party to a slow death. I mean, if Buffy were the worst legal guardian in the world, killing Dawn and all the guests would be anything but justice.