Question Helpless

[Librarian83]

I love the discussions I've seen in prior questions! Thank you, forum friends, for answering and enlightening me with your incredible words of wisdom.

When Giles confessed to injecting Buffy, do you think she had an overreaction or do you agree that her reaction was completely valid? (Including but not limited to, "Touch me and I'll kill you.")

I never answer my own questions, but in this case I will say that I completely understand that Buffy was already hurt by her biological father, but Giles doing this was more of an emotional wound because he is more of a father to her than her biological one. I'm just curious if anyone thought otherwise. Thanks!

 

[thrasherpix]

Absolutely not. Frankly, what Giles did horrified me more than Kraylik himself. I think Giles got off light, and I wouldn't have held it against Buffy if she'd thrown a chair at him that caused him to do his own bleeding.

That said...I think in Buffy's sitch I'd have forgiven him in time, with the other factors involved (and good thing he did jump in to save her toward the end and was condemned for it by Travers, made it easier to transfer all hate to Travers I'd have forgiven him for it--but never forget, and it would be a scar in the relationship).

BUT if I were Joyce, I would not have...and not just over the being kidnapped thing. (It would've been a nice touch in a later ep if Joyce, particularly worried about Buffy, said she had recurring nightmares of Kraylik, and feeling helpless tied to a chair and gagged, where her words ultimately meant nothing to Buffy and she couldn't do anything to save Buffy...with Buffy reminding Joyce that she took an axe to Spike, one of the most feared vampires in the world, and that did make a difference.) In my headcanon, it's because Giles "is like a Stevedore in sex" from the earlier ep of Band Candy that she makes allowances for him. 😛


This is one of my favorite eps of the series, by the way. I wish more had been like that, though without the shock factor of Giles. Not only for the emphasis on the horror tone, but also because everyone involved acted as if they lived in a world of monsters and secret societies, something that seems to not be shown in many other eps that well. I understand people get jaded after awhile, but it just felt off in many early eps to me (though I loved the season 1 scene where Willow says the school wasn't her world anymore, it was theirs, the vampires and demons, that helped pull me in). In interest of not going into other eps to compare and contrast (and thus keep this relatively short) I'll stop there.

 

[thetopher]

I have zero problem with Buffy's reaction to Giles betrayal; he almost got her killed on patrol with his actions, saw all her naked fear and bewilderment at losing her powers and said absolutely nothing.
She must've thought back to all that feigning sympathy and recent coolness and not know what to think about Giles.

I think her 'touch me and I'll kill you' was a genuine warning because she didn't know what she would do from one moment to the next.

And I think, whilst she starts to forgive him by the end of the episode the betrayal is a factor as to why she didn't go to him regarding the Deputy Mayor debacle. There would've been a question about Giles trustworthiness that wouldn't have been there before, hence her secrecy (to a degree).

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Buffy was absolutely justified. She should never have associated with him again. Once you blow the trust fuse, that's it. It's not like a circuit breaker that you can reset. Maybe he has some arcane knowledge that she might need at some time, but she should just take what he has to say and leave. Giles is like a test subject in a Milgram experiment - one who fails the test.

 

[Tome]

That test was freaking dumb. They risked losing an experienced Slayer to test her "resourcefulness and intelligence". Couldn't they have done it another way where Buffy wasn't risking losing her life?

As for Buffy being utterly destroyed by that revelation, not shocking at all. At that point, Buffy was already considering Giles as a surrogate father. BIG BETRAYAL of her trust. However, Giles does make up for it a bit by going against the Council right after.

 

[thetopher]

Well, the test is actually there to tell the slayer; 'don't get cocky, we- the Watchers- can take away your power at any time.' It's an exercise in Patriarchal control dressed up like an ingenuity test.

 

[Plasma]

I love the discussions I've seen in prior questions! Thank you, forum friends, for answering and enlightening me with your incredible words of wisdom.

When Giles confessed to injecting Buffy, do you think she had an overreaction or do you agree that her reaction was completely valid? (Including but not limited to, "Touch me and I'll kill you.")

Absolutely not an overreaction. What Giles did was insidious, trust-breaking, and knowingly harmful to her biology. Then he acted ignorant of what it could’ve been that was causing her issues. He abused his power over her for some outdated patriarchal ritual.

She was 100% right by distrusting, and even hating him, in that moment and for a time afterwards. What he did was indisputably wrong, and it’s one of the few things Giles does that he resents throughout the remainder of the series.

 

[Bop]

I think Buffy's reaction was fair because it was very late in the game in her relationship with Giles, she probably trusted him completely and wouldn't think he'd choose following the council's orders when that meant poisoning her and it almost killed her and Joyce.

 

[Tome]

Well, the test is actually there to tell the slayer; 'don't get cocky, we- the Watchers- can take away your power at any time.' It's an exercise in Patriarchal control dressed up like an ingenuity test.

So it's a scare tactic is what you are saying. I don't think I've ever looked at it that way. It does make Giles' actions look even worse, though, considering he's part of that organization.

 

[BibliophileAnn]

Imo Buffy’s reaction was totally justified when she found out what Giles had done. Giles betrayed Buffy’s trust and faith in him and it probably shocked her that he would ever do such a thing to her. It is just goes to show how clever Buffy is to trick Kralik into drinking Holy Water. Giles should be ashamed of himself.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

I think the Crucimentum had some legitimate purpose in the distant past, that is forgotten in the present. Maybe it was the Slayer's final exam, to make sure her knowledge and cunning proved worthy of her gifts. Maybe it was something all Watcher Paladins did at one point, to demonstrate they were worthy of consecration as a knight. Or maybe it was something that a more savage age saw as less objectionable. That being said, Giles still betrayed Buffy's trust, put her in a dangerous situation, and almost got her mother killed. In hindsight though, Buffy was in no greater danger than Nighthawk or Gunn, or you know, most of Sunnydale, so she was cross with him for a few weeks, but ultimately forgave him.

 

[thetopher]

So it's a scare tactic is what you are saying. I don't think I've ever looked at it that way. It does make Giles' actions look even worse, though, considering he's part of that organization.

I don't think Giles thought of it that way either, since he has a pretty good working relationship with Buffy; but the Watcher's Council- removed and detached- and other Watcher's in the past could've seen it as such; it would've been a great way of keeping their 'weapon' from getting to 'arrogant'/independent.

Giles only defence here is that he's been raised by the Council since a very young age to think a certain way- the council's approach is always right because they always work- and is brainwashed/Institutionalized to an extent.
And he still manages to say 'uh, this doesn't seem very, y'know, moral or anything close to that' in his Britishness and so Travers has to persistently reassure him 'this is the way its always been done, its the test for the Watcher as well as the slayer. You want to be a good Watcher, don't you Rupert?' etc

It's actually quite impressive that Giles snaps and goes to help Buffy. He might dismally fail the test but at least his relationship with Buffy isn't completely destroyed.